Concealed or open?

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Jul 14, 2009
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In North Dakota an auto is legal to carry if its not concealed.

Is a clipped folder in a front pocket considered concealed or open? Clip can be seen. Pretty obvious its a knife.

LEOs (or anyone)on here may know???

Thanks.










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there may be a section that indicates what constitutes open carry within the law you are talking about.

in general, if an identifiable portion of the item is in plain view, it is considered open carry.
 
hey Morimotom you wouldn't happen to know about the open carry laws in CA would you? I've looked for three days now and I can't find them. The knife I want to carry is the Smith & Wesson Power Glide blade (not the Tanto Version). The knife comes with a Sheath and a clip that attaches the knife to the waist.
 
there may be a section that indicates what constitutes open carry within the law you are talking about.

in general, if an identifiable portion of the item is in plain view, it is considered open carry.


WOW, i should mark this date on the calender because it's very rare that i disagree with you. i have to say i'd consider it concealed. i'm not saying i'd charge someone with it, but i wouldn't consider it OC, if it was only the clip exposed.
 
WOW, i should mark this date on the calender because it's very rare that i disagree with you. i have to say i'd consider it concealed. i'm not saying i'd charge someone with it, but i wouldn't consider it OC, if it was only the clip exposed.

Ah, good ol' pocket clip issue again.

It's rarely enumerated in written law. Many times it's up to case law, and there have been cases that go both ways.

a) Court rules it is open carry because the officer was able to tell it was a knife in the first place. If the officer could not tell it was a knife, he would never have pursued it, therefore it cannot be considered concealed. Defendant is found not-guilty of concealed weapon.

b) Court rules it is still concealed because the officer's "trained eye" was able to recognize it, but allegedly the average person would not be able to tell the knife for what it is. Defendant is found guilty of concealed weapon.


There is no directly applicable case law for ND that I can find. State v. Beane may be a little illustrative: The defendant was being questioned by two parole officers and had a folder clipped to his pocket. This did not get the officers attention, not until he refused to take his hands away from it and starting backing up away from them. They took him down, took his knife and found drugs. The knife was not considered a crime, but the drugs were. Beane was moron if you ask me because the parole officers weren't even looking for him, just a guy he associated with.

It is interesting to note that in ND, the high court has multiple times struck down convictions obtained by "Terry Searches," one because the objects felt during a frisk were obviously not weapons (they were drugs, State v. Harlan), and another because there was no reasonable suspicion (State v. Brockel).
 
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WOW, i should mark this date on the calender because it's very rare that i disagree with you. i have to say i'd consider it concealed. i'm not saying i'd charge someone with it, but i wouldn't consider it OC, if it was only the clip exposed.


what makes me say open carry here is the op indicates it is "obviously" a knife.

there are some knives with deep pocket clips that are less identifiable. if for instance, the clip was deep enough so only the clip was exposed and no part of the knife was visible, it would be much easier to argue a case for concealed carry.

this is a difficult intepretation to make because we have limited information. photos obviously help, but i formed my opinion based only on the post.

consider a fixed blade in a sheath, or a handgun in a holster. easily identifiable, but the majority of the item is "concealed" by the sheath/holster.
 
what makes me say open carry here is the op indicates it is "obviously" a knife.

there are some knives with deep pocket clips that are less identifiable. if for instance, the clip was deep enough so only the clip was exposed and no part of the knife was visible, it would be much easier to argue a case for concealed carry.

this is a difficult intepretation to make because we have limited information. photos obviously help, but i formed my opinion based only on the post.

consider a fixed blade in a sheath, or a handgun in a holster. easily identifiable, but the majority of the item is "concealed" by the sheath/holster.

oh yea, i totally understand why you'd call it OC. i'm not saying it isn't, i'm saying that i (personally) would consider it concealed. i think it's one of those things that is such a blurry area, it boils down to on scene interpretation. you mentioned fixed blades. if i saw the sheath protruding down past the shirt line, but the handle was covered, i'd call it concealed. whereas if the entire sheathed blade was IWB, but i could see the handle, i'd call it OC.
 
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