Concealed SpyderCard and the Law

E

ET

Joined
Jul 19, 1999
Messages
170
Now the SpyderCard is obviously a great knife/tool/gadget for the wallet. I enjoy my serrated one very much but wanted to ask about the legality of it. And in particular whether it can slip by detection at airports, courts, other federal buildings, etc. Normally when you walk through a metal detector you drop all your keys, change and wallet in a dish. Now does security normally rummage through those items on the dish? Or are those items separately x-rayed? Would it considered carrying concealed? It's been a while since I've stepped into a building like that. Any input from people living anywhere is welcome.

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ET

 
I had a ToolLogic in my wallet I didn't take out when I went to the court house in Fremont, CA. They made me put everything through the x-ray machine including my wallet; I was looking for the dish. When they found it, the guard said this "push knife" is considered a weapon and threatened to send me to jail. My fiancé started to cry, so they just confiscated it, wrote down my name and driver's license number, said they were going to check up on me, and let me off with a stern warning. We were there because we were applying for our marriage certificate.

-Jerome
 
Jerome - "Push knives" in themselves are illegal in California, whether concealed or not.

ET - I have "fogotten" that my SpyderCard was in my wallet while entering an airplane leaving Japan. Security took away and checked my CF plain edge Dragonfly and Dyad Jr. They were very nice about it. My wallet went through Xray unquestioned. Realized it was there arriving in Portland.

sal
 
Actually, there is no law against possession or sale or open carry of a "push-knife" in California, but any fixed blade knife with a point can be considered a "dirk or dagger" under the "concealed carry" provision in Section 12020 of the CA Penal Code. The most prominent US distributor of "push-knives" is Cold Steel, operating openly in California. Such things are, however, outright contraband in Canada.

Also, a Tool-Logic "push knife" carried inside its plastic case inside a wallet inside a pocket is arguably not a "dirk or dagger" since, as carried, it is not "capable of ready use" as a stabbing weapon, but requires more motions to deploy than a folder does, and a folder in its folded condition is not a "dirk or dagger."

However, attempting to sneak a knife into a courthouse under a posted sign saying "no knives" could be prosecuted as contempt of court. CA courthouses are much more paranoid than airlines, perhaps because people do not board airlines for adversary procedings. US domestic airlines do not, on normal alert at least, x-ray wallets.

Outside special security zones, a SpyderCard is just another lock-blade folder, and it is small enough to be airline-legal under such FAA regulations as have been made public.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Some of the aiports and courthouses Ive been to send that little change tray thing through the x-ray machine, others didnt even look at the tray.
I havent tried it out though, I usually strip myself of all steel, save one multi-tool and one small folder before entering these places.
Also, I avoid those places if at all possible.

Once, sometime last year, I went into one of those arcade-type places in New York City around the times square area, and they had a couple security guards with the metal detector wands. I would have just gone home, but I didnt realize it until I was between them and the waved them all over my pockets(had at least two multitools, a bunch of keys, some change, a belt-buckle knife, one large folder, and one small/medium folder. Anyways, nothing happened and they just waved me through. wonder if they even turned those things on...

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AKTI member #A000911

 
ET: some of personnel workers near detectors don' t get enough credit all the time. A LEO friend of mine works one and has caught at least one individual in possession of a home made "credit card" blade carried inside of her wallet. All metal items were to be dumped in a plastic tray and one is to walk thru the detector. Once thru, he or she then retrieves the contents in the plastic tray which does not go thru the detector or X ray machine on the far right. LEO then asked her to empty contents of her wallet (which he in this case has all right to request so)and voila! There he found the blade. Here is his reasoning: why would you dump any non metallic/ non ferrous items (wallet) into the tray if it didn' t contain any? He therefore acted on this idea. JSP owners take notice.

L8r,
Nakano

ryk: those wands are more for deterrent than anything else in your case. None of those security guys really want to deal with discovering weapons if they themselves are not armed and are not peace officers. Is that wild air hockey table still there?
smile.gif
 
Nakano,
That's an interesting point you made about why one would empty your wallet. But how about if it's one of those wallets that hold change also. Do you know if the wallet in question was one of those?

James,
I'm thinking a serrated SpyderCard would not be allowed under FAA regulations.

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ET

 
re: Why put the wallet in the basket -

Many building access cards contain small batteries and/or microchips which can set off detectors. Also, I carry a "SecurID" card for dialin computer access in my wallet which has a battery, chip, and metal casing.
 
Interesting topic - Spyder card looks pretty slick, though I'd be hard pressed to dig it out and use it to slice my apples in a efficient manner.

Had an interesting experience going to the Corps of Engineers office last week. They are running security for the whole building. Dumped my wallet and SAK into the tray. Sure enough set the detector off on my first pass through. They do the wand frisk and what turns up but my trusty lunch fork (silver beauty).

I left the damn thing in my pocket between my desk and the break room. "Sir would you please explain what this is doing in your pocket?" I stumbled through my explaination of cup of noodles and all that. One of the guys was intent that I leave it with them, the other guy just rolled his eyes and sent me in with the beaut'.

Funny thing was they had finger food at the gathering with plenty of steel forks...

Oh yeah, they really gave my SAK a thorough inspection. The wallet was a money clip, card pouch type deal which they didn't mess with. Wait, where's my Amex card??!!

Gotta go

-j-
Boise, ID
 
Apparently, the new style paper currency is detectable. Recently, I was going somewhere that just had wands. The wand went off on a pocket that had a small ring of pistol-case type keys, and several $100s. The money came out with the keys, and I started putting the money back. The guard said I needed to put the bills in the basket as well. You can bet I kept an eye on that basket!
wink.gif


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Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!


 
Been through this subject many times.

The bottom line is the guy/gal with the badge is in charge and has the authority. Your best action is to follow his/her instructions.

Then, if you feel strong about your opinion, take the matter to court. That's the only place that it will be legally resolved.

There are so many local, City, County, State and Federal rules/laws that I do not believe anyone can accurately know what is the law in most situations.

I have witnessed the person wearing the badge misquoting law on many occassions.

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John F Jensen
"Your Quality Distributor"
619-475-3633



 
Nakano 2>

i dont remember if they had an air hockey, I was looking mostly at the video games, and they were too expensive(I think everything was at least .75-1.00), none of them interested me, and the place was too damned crowded, so I just left.
looked like a lot of there VR stuff and moving things were out of order as well

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AKTI member #A000911

 
ET: the wallet had no change in this particular incident. If it had and she walked thru the detector then eventually it would be discovered since it is common to have to walk thru several times before one gets the "clearance".

Brian Turner: as far as those electronic chips/ batteries go, I' ve seen individuals clear thru the detectors while having it on their persons. A few factors come into play here. One is if that particular facility is a high risk area or on alert warnings. Second, and consequently the detectors are on high sensitivity setting. On low settings, it is common to pass thru with jewelry, belt buckles, hat/ hair pins, and yes, coins. Why just recently, I' ve cleared a detector at a high security building while wearing my Emerson La Griffe! I simply forgot I had it on.

Often times it depends on the on duty personnel as well.

L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 17 November 1999).]
 
I fly extensively (domestically) and carry the Spyderco Michael Walker lightweight. I do not conceal it; I place it in the tray with my watch, wallet, etc. The blade is less than 3 inches and is not serrated, so I never have had a problem. Note however, the security personnel 9 out of 10 times cannot close the knife!

It is a different story accessing court houses and federal office buildings. They are much stricter these days about knives (and even cell phones). If you have a knife, offer it to the guard, get his or her name and a receipt. Otherwise, if they like it, you may not get it back.

Keith Silliman
 
JCHH: What a bummer. I would have been so mad as to take it up with the guard's superiors. I'm not very familiar with the toolcard, but I think you would be hard pressed to consider it a "weapon".

Nakano 2: The damn airport detectors are set so sensitive today that I strip *everything* out of my pockets, including my wallet. I wonder about the magnetic strips on credit cards. Even with this, I've had boot eyelets (and these were not combat boots) set off the detector.

I often wondered about men's fat wallets going through those trays. A guy could hollow out one and put a Beretta .25ACP in them. Until recently I did a fair amount of traveling, and only had one guard pick up my wallet and open it (not empty it). I gave her a compliment of sorts on her vigilance.

 
FWIW, The last three trips between east coast and midwest all xrayed the basket.

One time the xray attendent notified the guard "OF A KNIFE!" it was a small SAK, guard said 'Awww, that's just a baby, go on."

Maybe someone could silk screen some nice graphics, a fake number on the front, maybe and the phrase "First Bank of Golden" or some such.

DaveH
 
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