Condor Hudson Bay Knife Finish??

[cosmophonic12]

Is the steel finish hammer forged? if not, it is for appearence or something?? Tried calling Condor and nobody picked up. THanks for your time!!

 

[jbmonkey]

from the website.......

CONDOR® CLASSIC FINISH is a perfected process of hand hammering our Classic Series of axes and knives. It gives a classic and enhanced look to an already well made tool. Our employees use hand powered equipment to put this traditional pattern on, to give it a look as if it was hand forged over 200 years ago. The Classic series is a hit with historical camping fans, mountain men, and colonial period war reenactors.

now i got one of the early versions and mine is a standard black finish. which i personally prefer. hope that helps....

 

[cosmophonic12]

from the website.......




now i got one of the early versions and mine is a standard black finish. which i personally prefer. hope that helps....

Thanks man!!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It's hand-powered equipment, maybe, but it looks like some kind of roll marking or something. Not quite sure how they do it. Personally, though I wish they'd hit the middle ground on the finish and keep it smooth like the original but use the acid-induced forced patina of the present version. The present version looks nice and all, but original Hudson Bay knives had a smooth finish--not left rough with hammer marking.

 

[twl]

FWIW, I prefer the smooth surface.
I'm a big Condor fan.
Sometimes, it's not worth putting in extra production steps when the customers might not really want that.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

FWIW, I prefer the smooth surface.
I'm a big Condor fan.
Sometimes, it's not worth putting in extra production steps when the customers might not really want that.

Yeah--like I said, even though it looks decent the "classic" finish is ahistorical for the knife pattern. People wanted something more traditional than the black epoxy coat, so why not just the forced patina like they apply over the hammer marking? Keeps the blade smooth, looks rustic, and it's less of a process.

 

[hlee]

Yeah--like I said, even though it looks decent the "classic" finish is ahistorical for the knife pattern. People wanted something more traditional than the black epoxy coat, so why not just the forced patina like they apply over the hammer marking? Keeps the blade smooth, looks rustic, and it's less of a process.

Rant on- Because people mistakenly think that "period items" should look "rustic-" mistaking old for primitive.

Cutlery was (and is) made by highly skilled cutlers and surgical instrument makers, not by blacksmiths. People didn't want- and would not accept- hammer marks and rust (what the rest of the world calls a patina) on their blades then, and it is mistaken fantasy that makes people want them now.- Rant off

 

[dakine]

I like the hammered finish, I think that's what a lot of the new condor lineup is going to have.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I like the look.

I have one of the older hudson bay's with the black finish. First thing I did was strip it, then vinegar patina, and use it in the kitchen. I am thinking about re-handling it in Elk horn.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Rant on- Because people mistakenly think that "period items" should look "rustic-" mistaking old for primitive.

Cutlery was (and is) made by highly skilled cutlers and surgical instrument makers, not by blacksmiths. People didn't want- and would not accept- hammer marks and rust (what the rest of the world calls a patina) on their blades then, and it is mistaken fantasy that makes people want them now.- Rant off

Yup! It's a "feel good" finish!

I like the hammered finish, I think that's what a lot of the new condor lineup is going to have.

I like it too, as a whole--I just wish it hadn't been used on a knife with a full flat grind like the Hudson Bay. Looks pretty fantastic on a lot of the new models, though--especially the Engineer Bolo, in spite of the original Collins pieces being nice and smooth.

 

[twl]

Yup! It's a "feel good" finish!



I like it too, as a whole--I just wish it hadn't been used on a knife with a full flat grind like the Hudson Bay. Looks pretty fantastic on a lot of the new models, though--especially the Engineer Bolo, in spite of the original Collins pieces being nice and smooth.

Since you seem to have Condor's ear as a dealer, I'd like to give you some customer opinions from a fan.

I like their original Parang, Golok, Kukri designs, but mine were 3/4-tang, and they should be full tang. I heard they made a change to that, but I haven't seen any to verify it.
And I wouldn't mind if they modified the Cho or deleted it from the Kukri, in order to eliminate that stress point. If they keep it, it needs to be rounded and smaller so it doesn't induce a stress fracture. It's only a ceremonial styling cue anyway.

I'm not so sure that this new direction of the 2012 line is to my liking. I think that the new heavy kukri is too short, and should be 13" blade like the other one.
As far as the Pack Golok, Village Parang, they are fine for their intention of easier portability, but I wouldn't buy them. Too short.
I don't like the hammered finish, as I previously stated.
I haven't seen anything in the new 2012 line that I like better than my original Condor parang and kukri.

I did like some of last year's stuff like the Boomslang and the Speed Bowie and even the large Thai Enep to a lesser extent. Also liked the Toloza knife.

My suggestion would be for them to quit introducing so many new models, and really concentrate on quality control and full-tang models of their existing line that have top-notch heat treat and great finish.
And concentrate also on the sharpening, so they are all as sharp as the ones that I got. It goes a long way to impressing people when they open the box.
The existing models are really great. All they need to do is keep making them, and doing it with no rejects getting to the customers, and being consistently sharp.

This Condor company has a potential to really take a good percentage of the knife market if they buckle down and pay attention to detail.

The additions to the line that I would suggest are some thinner flat-ground versions of the bush series, as slicers. Not everyone wants scandi grinds.
And the neck knives are a little too short-bladed. I'd say go with at least an Izula blade length, and 3" blade length would be better.

Just 2 cents from a customer who really likes Condor, and would like to see them reach their real potential.

 

[jbmonkey]

Well if this is gonna turn into a suggestion thread for condor.......hammer finish needs to go away. Same with acid etched stuff. Condor to me is a real working tool company for fellows like myself to use for tasks. Not for silly decorative finishes that add cost to the product and provide no working benefit. What do I know though? That would be my biggest complaint. If they are gonna keep this direction of decorative stuff, offer a cheaper plain version for fellows who just want a solid tool. Thanks condor for listening.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Since you seem to have Condor's ear as a dealer, I'd like to give you some customer opinions from a fan.

All ears.

I like their original Parang, Golok, Kukri designs, but mine were 3/4-tang, and they should be full tang. I heard they made a change to that, but I haven't seen any to verify it.

Yup--they're all full tang now, with a skeletonized tang to mimic the balance of the 3/4 tang models.

And I wouldn't mind if they modified the Cho or deleted it from the Kukri, in order to eliminate that stress point. If they keep it, it needs to be rounded and smaller so it doesn't induce a stress fracture. It's only a ceremonial styling cue anyway.

They've rounded it now so it's no longer a problem, but I'ld like to see it eliminated as well, as the model is a machete rendition of a kukri, and that diversion from traditional form means that a cho isn't necessary.

I'm not so sure that this new direction of the 2012 line is to my liking. I think that the new heavy kukri is too short, and should be 13" blade like the other one.
As far as the Pack Golok, Village Parang, they are fine for their intention of easier portability, but I wouldn't buy them. Too short.
I don't like the hammered finish, as I previously stated.
I haven't seen anything in the new 2012 line that I like better than my original Condor parang and kukri.

I agree that the HD Kukri would have been better in a 13" rendition, but they may have had their reasons. I like the Pack Golok/Village Parang for their intended role, but my usual tastes in a machete are 16"+ Not nearly as packable if you aren't carrying it on your hip, though! The hammered finish isn't for everyone, but I think its application in the 2012 line is appropriate.

I did like some of last year's stuff like the Boomslang and the Speed Bowie and even the large Thai Enep to a lesser extent. Also liked the Toloza knife.

My suggestion would be for them to quit introducing so many new models, and really concentrate on quality control and full-tang models of their existing line that have top-notch heat treat and great finish.
And concentrate also on the sharpening, so they are all as sharp as the ones that I got. It goes a long way to impressing people when they open the box.
The existing models are really great. All they need to do is keep making them, and doing it with no rejects getting to the customers, and being consistently sharp.

This Condor company has a potential to really take a good percentage of the knife market if they buckle down and pay attention to detail.

I agree that slowing down the model introduction and focusing most of their energy on upping consistency would be wise. They've gotten a lot better but if they can just dial things in a little more they'll be a force to be reckoned with. The fact that they've already captured such a large share of the market in spite of their QC inconsistencies says something! People like them enough they're largely willing to forgive the occasional hassle of a lemon. Eliminate that problem and a lot more folks will jump on the bandwagon. :thumbup:

The additions to the line that I would suggest are some thinner flat-ground versions of the bush series, as slicers. Not everyone wants scandi grinds.
And the neck knives are a little too short-bladed. I'd say go with at least an Izula blade length, and 3" blade length would be better.

Just 2 cents from a customer who really likes Condor, and would like to see them reach their real potential.

I agree--I'd love to see a flat-ground version of the Bushlore and the Sapien, for instance. Both are very popular models and so adding more SKU's would be a good move. And when the neckers were originally released I was very excited for them until I saw them in person and realized they were tin knife sized. Some bigger ones would be nice. In stainless, too. I've got some designs kicking around, though, so we'll see if Condor wants me to do any more work for them after the Baryonyx premiers in 2013. Or Joe may have some tricks up his sleeves for 2013--one never knows! :thumbup:

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Well if this is gonna turn into a suggestion thread for condor.......hammer finish needs to go away. Same with acid etched stuff. Condor to me is a real working tool company for fellows like myself to use for tasks. Not for silly decorative finishes that add cost to the product and provide no working benefit. What do I know though? That would be my biggest complaint. If they are gonna keep this direction of decorative stuff, offer a cheaper plain version for fellows who just want a solid tool. Thanks condor for listening.

The acid-etched "damascus" patterning has gone the way of the dinosaur already. I think that the hammer marking is appropriate when limited to particular models that have an element of "fun" about them. But I definitely think it shouldn't spread beyond a handful of items. I'd actually like to see more models done with a polished blade like the EcoSurvivors. Looks nice and still has corrosion protection with the clear coat.

 

[twl]

I'm looking forward to seeing your new Baryonyx.
And I think Joe Flowers is a very talented designer too.
I personally think that the Condor 17.5" bladed Parang is one of the most beautiful large blade designs that I've ever seen. The sweep and shape of that blade is phenomenal. And the way the traditional wooden handle is shaped works perfectly into the overall flow of that design shape. It is gorgeous! I hope that they make that Parang forever. I will be buying another one with the full tang and also the Kukri with the full tang.
I absolutely LOVE both of those.

If they make a flat grind Sapien, I will buy that.
And I agree that the availability of stainless in the neck knives is a good idea too.
The blade length of 2.8"-3" is a safe bet. We see that the Izula is well-accepted and proven with that blade length. So, I see that as the minimum length for general acceptance for a minimalist "survival" type knife which is not going to be questioned about usefulness in length.

It wouldn't hurt to hook up with a kydex sheath maker that could supply kydex for these blades as an available aftermarket option. That could really spruce-up the attractiveness of the package for a certain market segment. I'd love to have a kydex sheath for my Parang and one for my Kukri.
You could even set that up as a Baryonyx offering yourself. I think it might be a good idea.
Set up the rivets so that you can Piggyback the smaller knife sheaths onto the machete sheaths.
I'm liking the sound of that already!

 

[TheGame]

Odd that you don't like a lot of the 2012 line, as I tend to like almost all of them. Guess that is why there is a forum for knife knuts, not everyone likes the same thing

I tend to like the forged finish look, and texture. Not really sure why, I just find it attractive, I suppose.

I would like a 13", thick kukri, too. But I like the 10" too. Perhaps a longer one is going to be made down the line.

As far as so many new models - I agree, but only because I like most of them and tend to spend a lot of money on them

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Odd that you don't like a lot of the 2012 line, as I tend to like almost all of them Guess that is why there is a forum for knife knuts, not everyone likes the same thing

I tend to like the forged finish look, and texture. Not really sure why, I just find it attractive, I suppose.

I would like a 13" thick kukri, too. But I like the 10" too. Perhaps a longer one is going to be made down the line.

As far as so many new models - I agree, but only because I like most of them and tend to spend a lot of money on them

I like the whole new line too. The only stuff I'd tweak is all minor, mostly preferential stuff. The only reason I think a smaller number of models released next year would be so that they can put more energy into taking that final step forward in QC they need to truly dominate in the industry. Then they can get back to releasing a million new models every year.

 

[TheGame]

I like the whole new line too. The only stuff I'd tweak is all minor, mostly preferential stuff. The only reason I think a smaller number of models released next year would be so that they can put more energy into taking that final step forward in QC they need to truly dominate in the industry. Then they can get back to releasing a million new models every year.

The quality control isn't that far behind some of the others, really. Just not many people know about them, and the people that do tend to be people who post on the forums.(Wait, I think you.. or someone else said this.. I just agree with it) I agree it could be better, and taking some time to do that would be cool. And, a year off of a ton of new models may save my not-so-deep pockets a little

 

[upnorth]

I suppose for a reenactor the hammered Hudson Bay finnish may be off putting. It doesn't bother me though even when I have real Fur Trade cutting tools. I see the H.B. in the ''spirit'' of the original knife. Would I prefer it to be closer to the original knife ? Yes, I would. But this was an inexpensive ''fun'' purchase for me and I don't feel all uptight about the finish. B.T.W. I also admire the full tang Parang. This is a handsome chopping tool. I even got a hint of wood grain highlight after rubbing mineral oil on the wooden grip 2-3 times. Oh ya. Never intended to go here, but here she goes. I got a replacement H.B. sheath from Condor because the belt loop (were it thins out for the rivet\swivel) is a fail point. I pulled the loop off easily. My replacement is exactly the same. I want to acknowledge that Condor was kind and attentive enough to replace the sheath (which actually rocks other than the poor loop thinning). And, I am quite appreciative of the response. I was however puzzled and disappointed that the same malady in my first sheath was revealed in my second. I DO NOT want any more freebies from Condor, that is not the point of this post. What I find disappointing is that what to me seems an obvious design flaw which is easily corrected, was missed. Just don't thin the end tabs of the belt loop out were the rivet goes through the loop and sheath. Leave the material thick and non tapered. The loop would then be VERY robust.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I suppose for a reenactor the hammered Hudson Bay finnish may be off putting. It doesn't bother me though even when I have real Fur Trade cutting tools. I see the H.B. in the ''spirit'' of the original knife. Would I prefer it to be closer to the original knife ? Yes, I would. But this was an inexpensive ''fun'' purchase for me and I don't feel all uptight about the finish. B.T.W. I also admire the full tang Parang. This is a handsome chopping tool. I even got a hint of wood grain highlight after rubbing mineral oil on the wooden grip 2-3 times. Oh ya. Never intended to go here, but here she goes. I got a replacement H.B. sheath from Condor because the belt loop (were it thins out for the rivet\swivel) is a fail point. I pulled the loop off easily. My replacement is exactly the same. I want to acknowledge that Condor was kind and attentive enough to replace the sheath (which actually rocks other than the poor loop thinning). And, I am quite appreciative of the response. I was however puzzled and disappointed that the same malady in my first sheath was revealed in my second. I DO NOT want any more freebies from Condor, that is not the point of this post. What I find disappointing is that what to me seems an obvious design flaw which is easily corrected, was missed. Just don't thin the end tabs of the belt loop out were the rivet goes through the loop and sheath. Leave the material thick and non tapered. The loop would then be VERY robust.

I think part of why they skive the ends is because of the post length of the speedy rivets they use? I think if they left it full thickness it would be too thick for the post. Too bad about the bum replacement--that happened to me recently with a Woodworker axe with the head hafted crooked. Sent it back, got a new one, and it was beautiful except for having the same problem. The replacements ship from El Salvador, so Rick is just acting as the middle man. Please do contact Rick again and let him know--getting ONE with that problem is one thing, but getting two in a row with the same issue is unacceptable and he'll want the info so he can get the issue corrected in El Salvador.