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confused which kind of backpack to buy
- Thread starter lowlife
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2001
- Messages
- 8,326
I would check out the 3-day pack from Tactical Tailor. I used one as a demo bag for a few years at Ft. Lewis. It regulary carried all my needs, and quite a bit of bang as well. The Rangers swear by the stuff.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2001
- Messages
- 428
...I love my EAGLE Large Becker Patrol Pack.
Order it from Brad at WWW.LIGHTFIGHTER.COM....
Good prices.
Excellent service.
Order it from Brad at WWW.LIGHTFIGHTER.COM....
Good prices.
Excellent service.
You can also look into the various packs made for backpacking - the better quality packs are durable, have good harnesses & frames, and come in more colors than black/OD (not that there's a problem w/ those colors 
) If you look at places like campmor, you can usually find stuff on closeout at good prices. I picked up a Kelty Moraine (3000 cubic inches, internal frame, four outside pockets and an internal sleeve for a hydration bladder for less than $70 - well contructed, comfortable, nice design/layout. Colors are black & medium blue.
You can get good quality gear at REI, EMS, etc. It may not be "operator" proven, just used by people who walk 1200 miles as a hobby
I put 3 years of use on a kelty red cloud - could hardly tell it was used when I sold it. If you think you need "tactical" colors, you can find raincovers in various colors to camouflage the pack if necessary.
Take a look at an EMS or REI store - you may be pleasantly surprised by what you find.
Sam
) If you look at places like campmor, you can usually find stuff on closeout at good prices. I picked up a Kelty Moraine (3000 cubic inches, internal frame, four outside pockets and an internal sleeve for a hydration bladder for less than $70 - well contructed, comfortable, nice design/layout. Colors are black & medium blue.You can get good quality gear at REI, EMS, etc. It may not be "operator" proven, just used by people who walk 1200 miles as a hobby
I put 3 years of use on a kelty red cloud - could hardly tell it was used when I sold it. If you think you need "tactical" colors, you can find raincovers in various colors to camouflage the pack if necessary.
Take a look at an EMS or REI store - you may be pleasantly surprised by what you find.
Sam
About 10 years ago, my wife surprised me with an Eagle 3-day pack, in olive green. I have used it extensively while camping, day hiking, and backpacking in the mountains. In between, it is the primary BOB for my car.
To say I love it would be a real understatement. Everything from the design to the hardware to the construction is absolutely bomb-proof. A lot of thought went into this pack! Eagle gear has ALWAYS exceeded my expectations.
One of the real advantages of the 3-day pack design is that it doesn't come off as looking too "tactical". It does have a good assortment of lashing poiints and D-rings, but it just looks like a larger version of a college book bag. That might be an important feature depending upon your situation.
Hope this helps,
James
To say I love it would be a real understatement. Everything from the design to the hardware to the construction is absolutely bomb-proof. A lot of thought went into this pack! Eagle gear has ALWAYS exceeded my expectations.
One of the real advantages of the 3-day pack design is that it doesn't come off as looking too "tactical". It does have a good assortment of lashing poiints and D-rings, but it just looks like a larger version of a college book bag. That might be an important feature depending upon your situation.
Hope this helps,
James
campmor.com and reioutlet.com are excellent places to get great packs at super prices. I guess it all comes down to what you are going to put in it and how much abuse you want it to take.
Blackhawk, Eagle and London Bridge Tactical are the three I would recommend over all others (with a heavy emphasis on Blackhawk
)
The 3 day packs are great, but this is what I am upgrading to right now --
It's Blackhawk's X-3 RAPTOR pack
It has the all new Intercooler Ventalation System (IVS) Back Panel, which helps to provide better moisture evaporation and enhance the overall pack support and performance. The X3 is made with Heavy Duty 1000 denier Nytaneon®, with all seams Quad-Stitched and Trim Taped Edges.
Inside the Main Compartment there are three securing cinch straps two horizontally and one centered verticality. Drain holes are provided for each compartment for easy and quick drainage for maximum efficiency during Maritime Operations. And!!! Plenty of pocket space on the outside (I love that)
AVERAGE DIMENSIONS:
Main Compartment:
23.5"H X 13.5"W X 9"D
Front Pocket:
20"H X 10.5"W X 3.5"D
Right Side Pocket:
15"H X 4"W X 2"D
Upper Left Side Pocket:
8.5"H X 4"W X 2"D
Lower Left Side Pocket:
6.5"H X 4"W X 2"D
OVERALL CUBIC INCHES: 3,830
Get your hands on some different bags, see how they feel and how they feel on with a load in "em. You can ask people all day what they like, but you need to find out what is right for you.
Have fun!
Dan
Blackhawk, Eagle and London Bridge Tactical are the three I would recommend over all others (with a heavy emphasis on Blackhawk
)The 3 day packs are great, but this is what I am upgrading to right now --
It's Blackhawk's X-3 RAPTOR pack
It has the all new Intercooler Ventalation System (IVS) Back Panel, which helps to provide better moisture evaporation and enhance the overall pack support and performance. The X3 is made with Heavy Duty 1000 denier Nytaneon®, with all seams Quad-Stitched and Trim Taped Edges.
Inside the Main Compartment there are three securing cinch straps two horizontally and one centered verticality. Drain holes are provided for each compartment for easy and quick drainage for maximum efficiency during Maritime Operations. And!!! Plenty of pocket space on the outside (I love that)
AVERAGE DIMENSIONS:
Main Compartment:
23.5"H X 13.5"W X 9"D
Front Pocket:
20"H X 10.5"W X 3.5"D
Right Side Pocket:
15"H X 4"W X 2"D
Upper Left Side Pocket:
8.5"H X 4"W X 2"D
Lower Left Side Pocket:
6.5"H X 4"W X 2"D
OVERALL CUBIC INCHES: 3,830
Get your hands on some different bags, see how they feel and how they feel on with a load in "em. You can ask people all day what they like, but you need to find out what is right for you.
Have fun!
Dan
- Joined
- Jun 23, 1999
- Messages
- 1,209
I have a Blackhawk 3 day assault pack and have used it on a number of multi-day trips. Its good and strong, carries very comfortably, I can recommend it as a BOB. The only thing I don't like about it is its lack of external pockets. It has 3 different compartments, but they are all <i>inside</i> the pack. That makes the pack very smooth on the outside, which makes it easy to maneuver through dense brush which I take it is the idea behind this "pocketless" design. Problem is I like external pockets 
, so one of these days, I'll have to come up with something else... The Becker Patrol seems to be very popular around these parts...
, so one of these days, I'll have to come up with something else... The Becker Patrol seems to be very popular around these parts...
Lots of questions lately on getting packs, what type and what to look for have been popping up. Here are some articles I pulled off of Backpacker.com that are really informative. This is long, but good info.
Following these seven commandments will guarantee pack nirvana:
Fit Thy Torso
Your height does not determine your torso length! To measure your torso, drape a soft tape measure from the seventh vertebrae (the bony protrusion at the base of your neck) down along the contour of your spine to the low point between your hipbones. To find that point, place a hand on each hip with your thumbs pointing in. The line connecting your thumbs is what you're measuring to. If your torso is less than 18 inches long, you'll typically take a small suspension system; 18 to 20 inches calls for a medium; 21 inches or more requires a large.
Console Thy Hips
That's a hipbelt, not a waistbelt. It should ride on your hips, transferring the weight to your skeletal structure. It's because of this belt-to-bone contact that the belt is padded. Make sure the pads don't touch in front; you'll need some room to cinch it.
Suit Thy Yoke
Some shoulder straps sprout from the harness in a Y, others in an H. Some you can adjust to suit your neck and shoulders. The straps should anchor to the pack just below the crest of your shoulders. From there, they should make a close-contact wrap of your shoulders. The bottom of the strap should rest at least a hand's width below your armpit so that it doesn't ride up. If the straps don't match the contours of your neck and shoulders, they will pinch and bruise.
Adjust Thy Load-lifters
At the ideal angle of 45 degrees, load-lifter straps will help you move the weight around on your shoulders, or even off of your shoulders and onto your hips. Once your hipbelt and shoulder straps fit just right, feel for a strap that runs from the top of your shoulder strap up to the frame and tighten it.
Don't Choke On Thy Sternum Strap
This webbing and buckle connect the two shoulder straps, guiding where the pressure falls on your shoulders. Move the strap up or down to its most comfortable position.
Clear Thy Head
Load the pack too full and high, and you won't be able to look up at the birds or clouds. Adjust the lid pocket so it leans away from your head.
Reconcile Thy Load
Your best bet when shopping is to pretend you're heading out on a long, cold hike. Load everything you'll need into a duffel, including food (allow 1 to 2 pounds per day), and try to fit it into the packs you've chosen as finalists. Then march around the block a couple of times.
Buying A Better Pack
There's no single piece of equipment more crucial to your backwoods enjoyment. Here's how to make the right choice.
By Dan Nelson, March 2001
Measure your torso. To get a proper fit, you must know your torso length. To find out, drape a soft tape measure from the seventh vertebra (the bony protrusion at the base of your neck) down along the contour of your spine to the low point between your hipbones.
Check those hips. When trying on packs, make sure you get the hipbelt positioned properly-that is, directly on the crest of the hips, not around the waist. The majority of the load will be carried by the hipbelt, so make sure it's comfortable and fits snugly, without slipping.
Practice patience. Your backpack may be your most important piece of gear, so take your time with the selection process. Before you leave for the store, toss all your usual backpacking gear into a duffel bag. Once you narrow down the options, load the packs and walk around the store for 20 minutes to make sure that the gear all fits inside and that the pack carries the load comfortably.
Treat yourself. Buy the best pack you can afford-as long as it fits. Durability and quality rank right behind fit as important considerations.
Know your load. Determine what and how much you'll be carrying. Are you planning to spend, at most, 1 or 2 nights out at a time? Will you be hiking in the winter? For short outings in the summer, you can get by with a smaller pack, but snowy trips require more capacity, plus external gear-lashing options.
Consider your trails. If you plan to hike mostly on well-maintained backcountry trails, you might find an external frame pack more comfortable. If your hiking will take you off-trail or into rough, rising terrain where balance is crucial, an internal frame will offer greater stability and comfort.
Think versatility. If you like to go for an evening scramble after you set up camp, look for a pack with a daypack conversion option.
Respect your idiosyncrasies. Packs are like spouses: You shouldn't get one hoping it will change your bad habits. If your personal motto is "A place for everything and everything in its place," look for an external frame style with lots of pockets. If you want to grab your water bottle on the go, don't frustrate yourself by falling for that nifty new pack with pockets that are just out of reach.
Plan with your partner. If you are hiking with a partner or group, figure out how much community gear (tents, stoves, food, etc.) you'll be carrying. Then buy the smallest pack that'll work so you don't have room to carry all the excess junk that usually shows up at the trailhead.
Think drink. If you favor a hydration tube for your fluid needs, find a pack ready-made to handle a bladder. If not, look for deep water-bottle pockets that can hold a quart-size bottle.
Be A Quality Cop
By Kristin Hostetter, BACKPACKER Contributing Editor, June 2000
Brian Moran of Madden Mountaineering in Boulder, Colorado, is a quality guy. As Madden's full-time quality control manager, it's his job to hand inspect every pack that goes out the door. "In just a few minutes of close inspection, you can get a good sense of a pack's overall quality." Brian recommends checking out these key points before you buy.
Closely examine the stitching at a number of different points. The stitches should be neat, tight, and uniform. When you pull on a strap, the seam should not move, stretch, or gap.
Look for a minimum seam allowance of 1/4", preferably a 1/2", especially on areas that bear weight like the hipbelt and shoulder harness. (The seam allowance is the amount of excess fabric between a seam and the cut edge of the fabric.) Since fabric is woven, it can unravel near the edges, so the closer a seam is to the edge, the weaker the seam is. A good seam allowance is an insurance policy against this. Binding tape, which is used to cover the frayed edges, also helps.
Check the bartacks. A good one is really tight, and you should be able to yank on it and see no movement of the threads. Look closely at both sides of the bartack and be sure that each pass goes from end to end (as opposed to half passes, which aren't as strong).
Give the pack a quick once-over, looking for any fabric pinches or folds, missed stitches, loose threads, or other signs of shoddy workmanship.
How Big Should My Pack Be?
March 1, 2001
Capacity ratings can be used to gauge the pack's target usage. Our testing shows that the accuracy of capacity specs vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. You can get around this inconsistency by bringing all your gear (in a duffel bag) with you to the store when you shop for a new pack. Below are general guidelines for evaluating capacity usages.
2,500 to 3,000 cubic inches. This size works as a high-volume daypack or an ultralight overnight bag. These packs will hold a light sleeping bag and the minimum of camp essentials (light stove, pot, small tent) for short, warm-weather trips.
3,000 to 4,500 cubic inches. You'll find this size ideal for three-season weekend trips. They'll hold all the camp essentials as well as some warm clothes and enough food for a couple of days.
4,500 to 6,000 cubic inches. This size is the mainstay among the backpacking community. Perfect for long weekends or weeklong outings. These packs comfortably hold all the essentials, additional warm clothes, plus any extra camp comforts you might want to bring along.
6,000-plus cubic inches. Whether planning a month-long expedition or just a week of snowshoeing, you'll need this size to swallow all the extra gear and clothing for the adventure. They're also useful for folks who end up with the bulk of their family's communal gear (e.g., tent, stoves, food) during family trips.
That's it - enjoy
Dan
Following these seven commandments will guarantee pack nirvana:
Fit Thy Torso
Your height does not determine your torso length! To measure your torso, drape a soft tape measure from the seventh vertebrae (the bony protrusion at the base of your neck) down along the contour of your spine to the low point between your hipbones. To find that point, place a hand on each hip with your thumbs pointing in. The line connecting your thumbs is what you're measuring to. If your torso is less than 18 inches long, you'll typically take a small suspension system; 18 to 20 inches calls for a medium; 21 inches or more requires a large.
Console Thy Hips
That's a hipbelt, not a waistbelt. It should ride on your hips, transferring the weight to your skeletal structure. It's because of this belt-to-bone contact that the belt is padded. Make sure the pads don't touch in front; you'll need some room to cinch it.
Suit Thy Yoke
Some shoulder straps sprout from the harness in a Y, others in an H. Some you can adjust to suit your neck and shoulders. The straps should anchor to the pack just below the crest of your shoulders. From there, they should make a close-contact wrap of your shoulders. The bottom of the strap should rest at least a hand's width below your armpit so that it doesn't ride up. If the straps don't match the contours of your neck and shoulders, they will pinch and bruise.
Adjust Thy Load-lifters
At the ideal angle of 45 degrees, load-lifter straps will help you move the weight around on your shoulders, or even off of your shoulders and onto your hips. Once your hipbelt and shoulder straps fit just right, feel for a strap that runs from the top of your shoulder strap up to the frame and tighten it.
Don't Choke On Thy Sternum Strap
This webbing and buckle connect the two shoulder straps, guiding where the pressure falls on your shoulders. Move the strap up or down to its most comfortable position.
Clear Thy Head
Load the pack too full and high, and you won't be able to look up at the birds or clouds. Adjust the lid pocket so it leans away from your head.
Reconcile Thy Load
Your best bet when shopping is to pretend you're heading out on a long, cold hike. Load everything you'll need into a duffel, including food (allow 1 to 2 pounds per day), and try to fit it into the packs you've chosen as finalists. Then march around the block a couple of times.
Buying A Better Pack
There's no single piece of equipment more crucial to your backwoods enjoyment. Here's how to make the right choice.
By Dan Nelson, March 2001
Measure your torso. To get a proper fit, you must know your torso length. To find out, drape a soft tape measure from the seventh vertebra (the bony protrusion at the base of your neck) down along the contour of your spine to the low point between your hipbones.
Check those hips. When trying on packs, make sure you get the hipbelt positioned properly-that is, directly on the crest of the hips, not around the waist. The majority of the load will be carried by the hipbelt, so make sure it's comfortable and fits snugly, without slipping.
Practice patience. Your backpack may be your most important piece of gear, so take your time with the selection process. Before you leave for the store, toss all your usual backpacking gear into a duffel bag. Once you narrow down the options, load the packs and walk around the store for 20 minutes to make sure that the gear all fits inside and that the pack carries the load comfortably.
Treat yourself. Buy the best pack you can afford-as long as it fits. Durability and quality rank right behind fit as important considerations.
Know your load. Determine what and how much you'll be carrying. Are you planning to spend, at most, 1 or 2 nights out at a time? Will you be hiking in the winter? For short outings in the summer, you can get by with a smaller pack, but snowy trips require more capacity, plus external gear-lashing options.
Consider your trails. If you plan to hike mostly on well-maintained backcountry trails, you might find an external frame pack more comfortable. If your hiking will take you off-trail or into rough, rising terrain where balance is crucial, an internal frame will offer greater stability and comfort.
Think versatility. If you like to go for an evening scramble after you set up camp, look for a pack with a daypack conversion option.
Respect your idiosyncrasies. Packs are like spouses: You shouldn't get one hoping it will change your bad habits. If your personal motto is "A place for everything and everything in its place," look for an external frame style with lots of pockets. If you want to grab your water bottle on the go, don't frustrate yourself by falling for that nifty new pack with pockets that are just out of reach.
Plan with your partner. If you are hiking with a partner or group, figure out how much community gear (tents, stoves, food, etc.) you'll be carrying. Then buy the smallest pack that'll work so you don't have room to carry all the excess junk that usually shows up at the trailhead.
Think drink. If you favor a hydration tube for your fluid needs, find a pack ready-made to handle a bladder. If not, look for deep water-bottle pockets that can hold a quart-size bottle.
Be A Quality Cop
By Kristin Hostetter, BACKPACKER Contributing Editor, June 2000
Brian Moran of Madden Mountaineering in Boulder, Colorado, is a quality guy. As Madden's full-time quality control manager, it's his job to hand inspect every pack that goes out the door. "In just a few minutes of close inspection, you can get a good sense of a pack's overall quality." Brian recommends checking out these key points before you buy.
Closely examine the stitching at a number of different points. The stitches should be neat, tight, and uniform. When you pull on a strap, the seam should not move, stretch, or gap.
Look for a minimum seam allowance of 1/4", preferably a 1/2", especially on areas that bear weight like the hipbelt and shoulder harness. (The seam allowance is the amount of excess fabric between a seam and the cut edge of the fabric.) Since fabric is woven, it can unravel near the edges, so the closer a seam is to the edge, the weaker the seam is. A good seam allowance is an insurance policy against this. Binding tape, which is used to cover the frayed edges, also helps.
Check the bartacks. A good one is really tight, and you should be able to yank on it and see no movement of the threads. Look closely at both sides of the bartack and be sure that each pass goes from end to end (as opposed to half passes, which aren't as strong).
Give the pack a quick once-over, looking for any fabric pinches or folds, missed stitches, loose threads, or other signs of shoddy workmanship.
How Big Should My Pack Be?
March 1, 2001
Capacity ratings can be used to gauge the pack's target usage. Our testing shows that the accuracy of capacity specs vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. You can get around this inconsistency by bringing all your gear (in a duffel bag) with you to the store when you shop for a new pack. Below are general guidelines for evaluating capacity usages.
2,500 to 3,000 cubic inches. This size works as a high-volume daypack or an ultralight overnight bag. These packs will hold a light sleeping bag and the minimum of camp essentials (light stove, pot, small tent) for short, warm-weather trips.
3,000 to 4,500 cubic inches. You'll find this size ideal for three-season weekend trips. They'll hold all the camp essentials as well as some warm clothes and enough food for a couple of days.
4,500 to 6,000 cubic inches. This size is the mainstay among the backpacking community. Perfect for long weekends or weeklong outings. These packs comfortably hold all the essentials, additional warm clothes, plus any extra camp comforts you might want to bring along.
6,000-plus cubic inches. Whether planning a month-long expedition or just a week of snowshoeing, you'll need this size to swallow all the extra gear and clothing for the adventure. They're also useful for folks who end up with the bulk of their family's communal gear (e.g., tent, stoves, food) during family trips.
That's it - enjoy Dan