Confused........

He didn't say if it was a PH1 or a PH2, but I can break any knife you can hand me with the right kind of abuse. I could give you the mathematics involved with determining this particular "failure mode", as it is called in engineering lingo, but basically, the knife he was ABUSING was never intended to cleave through a 2" round of hardwood by bludgeoning the spine with another "baton" of hardwood. With all due respect to Marines, this fellow does not respect the tool's intended use and limitations. The knife was likely 440A stainless. A good blade steel when used as a knife, but not spined, or ground to be either an ax or a wedge for cutting wood across the grain by a driving blow to the spine. This is a civillian hunting knife, mainly designed to be used in butchering game animals. I do take heart in his declaration that he will never buy another Schrade, however. He obviously is unable to tell the difference between a knife and an ax. And I hate to see a good knife destroyed by abuse.

Codger
 
I'm confused as well. Schrade used the Pro Hunter name twice, on the Loveless designed PH 1 and 2, and prior to that, the big bowie style. A waste of a perfectly good knife in either case.

Phil
 
I could understand if he was using a knife that was designed for that purpose or a heavy duty survival/military knife but not a PH1/2.
Anyone remember the Cold Steel thread from awhile back about batoning? That knife was more suited to the purpose and it still broke.
If someone is intent on batoning they better check with the manufacturer (hard to do with Schrade) to see the knife is capable. If it's not then you shouldn't complain when it breaks.
 
My guess is that it was a 171UH, which has a very large blade but also has a hidden tang. I would think that the PH-1 or 2 with their full tangs would be stronger than the 171UH when used with a baton.
 
I guess that would depend on the hit. It the blade were hit properly, it would be directly above the point where the blade rested on the bottom wood, and the blow would be perfectly vertical without twist or tilt. If that were the case, the tang strength would not be a factor. It might become a factor if the blow were made at a point unsupported from beneath by the bottom wood (now a fulcrum), and the tang had to absorb the shock and torque instead of the cutting edge and wood.

Anyway, whichever knife it was, none of those were designed for that task. Would you use a rifle barrel as a prybar the cry foul when it bent? Or your stockman as a screwdriver and complain when the blade chipped or broke?

I have read of bladesmith competitions where the knives are used to attempt tasks that a knife was not designed for like cutting through stacked 2x4 lumber, a blade being driven into a tree and the maker suspending himself from the handle, etc., and this "battoning" sounds like one of those. I can scarce imagine how one's personal survival might depend upon the knife being able to successfully complete this odd task (heck, simply chopping the round in two is too hard?) as the poster suggested. But maybe I have just led a sheltered life.

Codger
 
Codger, I wasn't recommending the practice, I was merely pointing out which knife I thought was abused and why it was likely to break. I do have knives that can easily split wood with a baton, but they were designed to do these tasks and I know the difference.

This TOPS knife is made from 1/4" thick 1095 steel, is 12" long, weighs a whopping 22 oz., and has a full tang. It has done everything I have ever asked it to do, but it is not however, a hunting or a skinning knife.

delta-showdown-D2.jpg
 
One hint to his knife's identity, he mentions it has a fake stag handle. Were the PH1 or PH2 ever made with plasti-stag (or whatever Schrade called it)?

I don't know if having a full tang or not would have made a difference in the type of breakage described. The blade itself broke, not the handle.

-Bob
 
Bob, W... I think if the knife our survivalist was using had a staglon handle it was a 171UH. Good grief. Mint in the box value? $175. If it had the rare, original pommel, maybe $250. I may have to go add to that thread.
Phil
 
Bob W said:
One hint to his knife's identity, he mentions it has a fake stag handle. Were the PH1 or PH2 ever made with plasti-stag (or whatever Schrade called it)?

I don't know if having a full tang or not would have made a difference in the type of breakage described. The blade itself broke, not the handle.

-Bob
Click to expand...
Actually, the guy did not identify the knife, other than the name. Another poster, Danbo, said:
They cost very little, and came with an imitation stag handle, didn't they?
Click to expand...
So the guy who started the thread, at least so far, did a "driveby batonning" of the knife.

Knives (and axes, hatchets, machettes etc.) meant for impact chopping are tempered differently than those meant for other uses. And tempering, as we all know makes a world of difference in how well a knife steel handles it's assigned tasks. Remember the Schrade factory guy's post about the change made in the XT1B after a worker attacked a wooden pallet with one and a big chunk of the blade broke out? (I cannot find that thread to quote).

Also, knives (and axes, hatchets, machettes etc.) meant for impact chopping are ground with a different spine and bevel than most other knives. Few are meant to be used as a driven wedge, and even wedges are meant to be used with the grain, not across the grain.

IMHO, the fellow needs to buy a good handax. I have an Estwing that he can batton all day without damage, unless he uses a shop hammer on it.

Codger
 
It's very possible to have a knife that can survive that kind of use. I have seen a lot of reviews, with pictures, of knives that do it.

But those are usually knives with either very thick blades and/or some kind of high end tool steel. An average size blade made of 440a just isn't suited for that. How much were those Schrade hunters when they were new and still in production. $35?

The original poster in that thread never specified any more than "pro hunter." All of the other details were other people guessing. If that meant the Loveless model, what the heck were they thinking doing that with a hollow grind blade? That's just dumb. Then they bitch about never buying a Schrade again. Not suited for "bushcraft?" Who said it was? It's a hunter, that means it's for slicing meat, not cutting down trees.

It depends on where they hit it too. You shouldn't put the base of the blade on the target and hit the tip with a baton. We have no info on what he did, so it might be even worse than we imagine.


Edit:
But yes, a small axe would be a better choice for anyone planning on going out and doing "bushcraft." I wouldn't PLAN on going out and hammering a knife.
 
The 171 UH 1991 $79.95
PH1 1995 $74.95
PH2 1995 $59.95

Not expensive knives, but not cheap either, with most having a NIB mint value today well over a c-note, as Phil said.

Codger
 
The original poster in that thread never specified any more than "pro hunter." All of the other details were other people guessing.
Click to expand...
Aha! Re-reading the original topic, that's exactly true. It's unfortunate that "Stitch" hasn't posted back to tell exactly what knife model it was.

-Bob
 
I took apart my 171UH Pro Hunter to illustrate the juncture of the tang and the blade. If the original poster ever returns to the topic, he can identify exactly which knife he was using and where it broke.

171UHSmall.jpg
 
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