Contradiction in Student Handbook?

PeaceFrog

PeaceFrog

Joined
Nov 11, 2000
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Ok, here we are. I'm posting this in the bali forum rather than the law forum since all the knives I own for the time being are balis, and my EDC is a PC 69. If any mods want to move this, I'm cool with that.

I do not consider my knives weapons. They are tools, I use them as such regularly, and have never used them as weapons and hope I never have to. I also (of course) enjoy manipulating balisongs, it's something fun to do that I feel increases my dexterity. :D Unfortunately, because of the bad rep balis have, I don't know if school officials or Campus Police would believe the above statements. I have found an apparent contradiction in my Student Handbook.

Self-Defense Items
Mace and other such items are intended for self-defense purposes only. Use in other ways, except by police in the line of duty, would constitute a violation of College Regulations.

Weapons, Firearms, Fireworks, Explosives and Other Combustibles
Weapons, firearms, fireworks and explosives are prohibited on campus...SNIP...Toy, counterfeit, replica, or blank-firing firearms or other weapons are prohibited on campus. Pellet, paint, and bb guns are also prohibited. The College reserves the right to confiscate weapons, firearms, and any instruments, toys, or other things which reasonably appear to be weapons or other prohibited items listed above, and to hold these items for an appropriate disposition.

This seems very strict to me. I have friends who carry knives, but none who carry balis (the few who have balis only have China Cheapies hidden in their rooms). I think my best bet is hoping they will share my belief that it is not a weapon. Who would you recommend I speak to about this? :confused: I'm going to do some more reading in the booklet once I get back down to school, which is where I left it, and see if there are any people/titles/offices mentioned that might be applicable.

Thank everyone for their contributions.
 
As a former college student, I would say that there is no use fight for the right to carry a knife on campus becuase it's just not worth it. The administrations is concerned about the welfare of all students, faculty and staff. Carrying "weapons" on campus does not constitute a safe environment for everyone, especially if others find knives offensive and dangerous. College is not exactly the "real-world". It is a world contained in walls and those walls are meant to protect those within it. So my suggestion is...just carry it. Don't swing it in public, much like you would on the public streets. It's not like you're fighting to wear a specific t-shirt or anything. You are talking about a dangerous sharp object which can easily be misused.

If you're on a Private College Campus, even moreso, you should just forget it. Carrying knives are a privelege, so be glad you can get them and carry them in this country. Some places can't even get the knives we do.

Show it to your friends in the privacy of your dorm-room. There's no point in bringing attention to yourself and have your precious knife taken away based on the simple fact that your "handbook" says no "weapons," which a knife is if it is not specifically a utility knife or cooking knife (which I'm sure are questionable). So...

Be smart. Fight for the right if the administration ever comes after you, but not before.
 
The key words to look for are these:


Mace and other such items.

The policy does not say "or other items used for self defense".
 
Does that mean you CAN have mace/pepper spray? That's wild. If you don't know why, you have never had a good shot of pepperspray!:mad: :barf:
 
BloodyK: well said, darn it.. as much as I am not a pacifist or pushover in such matters I think there is no use fighting the system (and please dont petition to have a bali in the school yearbook ;) ) - live humbly for for a cause dont die obnoxiously for one. I think the rules are meant to protect everyone - remember not everyone is as mature and respectful of the idealogy of knives like you and I PF, sad to say. Lots of freaks in college who need a beating.

personally I feel everyone has the right to defend themselves, lots of physical beatings and rapes happen in college campuses from lots of pent up just out of post pubescent types. If defense is important to you I think you should carry your knife and if you believe it is a tool then you will respect the sheepies and their desire to keep the world safe from all with love and happiness (groan).

:rolleyes:

as for pepper spray, I think they should be allowed, and people should be able to defend themselves in a non lethal manner if possible, so the victims can stop whining and crying and do something about 'campus dangers'.

keep it low key use it as it should be used and keep the showing off in the room. And logically speaking if you go to a frat party or ANY place that has alchohol or "substances" that you are into, best have a legal blade with you.. you might not look for trouble but trouble might look for YOU there. Don't need another check mark next to your name.

Keep safe, and use your head.
 
You've got some good advice BK. You are best to "Lay-low"....trust me. I've worked in academia my entire career (University Campus')..., and if you take this issue to the Administration, you might as well have "Sniper-Boy" make you a couple of nice T-Shirts that say...."Hi.., I am carrying a Balisong". :(

I'm sure you are very responsible with your knife. Sadly, that has very little (actually nothing) to do with policy making on any school campus. Administrators at large institutions are not basing decisions on your character, or how you handle a tool. They are consulting with attorneys that advise them on how to best avoid liability.

To frame it a different way..., lets say they changed a policy like that you described.., to allow the carry of a smallish model like yours. If anyone was ever injured (or worse) because of that change in policy..., guess who would be in litigation? Not you.., because you would still be using your knife/tool/weapon as you described. Probably not even the student that committed the injury. They just arrest and jail students because most have no money to go after anyway. The Institution (or responsible body of policy makers).., would be at tremendous risk making such a change simply because they aren't just saying.."Ok...we think it's fine for BloodyKnuckles to carry his knife because he uses good judgement". They are in fact saying any student can carry such a knife on campus. <~~~ IT WON'T HAPPEN!

Save your energy for a politcal battle that doesn't announce what you carry regularly, and simply continue your responsible use of the knife.




"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
I don't have a proplem with people having pepper spray either. I just thought it intereting that it would be. Just to put it in context, if you pull pepper spray on me at work, I'm authorized to use my pistol...:eek:

If you were to ask me if I would wrather be shot of pepper sprayed, you know what I would say? Shot were?

I think the advice here is sold for your question. In the end your gonna have to do what you have to do.;)
 
Thanks, esp. Jeff, Sniperboy and ExamonLyf, that's a lot of good advice. I was afraid of that, that it'd be better to lay low than to draw attention to myself by asking "By the way sir, is this OK to do?" as I go about doing it...:) Hmm. I don't carry to parties, frat or off-campus. I just think that would be dumb, if there's even a small chance of me not being in full control of all faculties at all times.

There's a reason my EDC is only a 3", and it's so it (hopefully) looks less menacing. The fact that it's obviously old and worn also backs up that its a tool. Perhaps I should invest in a small spyderco or some pepperspray as an EDC item instead. GTASteel, I've heard that that stuff is horribly painful. I'm not really willing to carry that without knowing what it's like to get hit first. But I really don't want to tell my roomie to spray me in the face. :eek: Maybe I'll look into that spyderco :rolleyes:

Hmm. So maybe it would be a BAD IDEA :( to wear around campus that :cool: bali t-shirt :cool: that I'm about to get from you, jeff.
 
There's an old saying, "'Tis easier to beg forgivness than to ask permission." And forgivness is usually more forthcoming.

The problem with asking is that by simply asking you are acknowledging that there is a question. You're saying, "I know that this thing could be thought of as a weapon, but I'd like your permission to carry it anyway."

And if they say "No." Well, then the matter is settled.
 
Chuck took the words right out of my mouth --- easy for him to do, I stutter !! Thanks, Chuck !! I agree, better to keep your blade to yourself than to hassle the school's admin folks. They will not know, nor care to know your reasons for carrying a knife. It's not right, but it is reality. Unless you have mega-bucks and want to fight city hall, this is your best bet. Again, it's not right and it should be fought and won, but the cost in time and $$$s would be out of sight. As a student, you'd probably be be better off, personally -- devoting your time to your classes, rather than waging war on the administration. Do that after you get your sheepskin ! Best wishes--
 
That's pretty funny that my comment kind of backfired on me, as far as t-shirst go, anyway. When I made that statement about fighting to wear a specific shirt, I was referring to a case in my old high-school when the administration forbade students to wear shirts with any relationship to drugs and it's uses on them and also rock t-shirts that might be "offensive." There was one shirt in particular that they said I couldn't wear and it was a Nirvana shirt (after the release of Nevermind) which had a swimming naked baby on the front, much like the album cover. They said that a naked baby is offensive and if Disneyland wouldn't let me in with that shirt on, then I can't wear it to school either. Funny anecdote, but I thought it was pertinent to your situation. I was in no way trying to screw myself and my t-shirt idea. Besides...I doubt knives on t-shirts is as offensive as a naked baby.

P.S. Buy the shirt! Ack!
 
Ignore these guys! Seize control of one of the campus buildings ala the 60's sit-ins until they acquiesce to your demands! Non violent please (BM 40Ts only, although using a 49spl somewhere along the line (style is everything), perhaps as a prying tool, would be in excellent taste).

Just kidding of course. When I was in high school we couldn't wear Levis blue jeans. Now it's baby pictures, because Mickey wouldn't wear one. Times change, I'm just not certain how. What doesn't seem to change is some school administrators firm grasp of the "unimportant".
 
First post on this forum, and it seems I've stepped into a good one. I am now out of school, but when I was there, I carried a buck locking folder usually. Not the 110, but a smaller version. Sometimes I would rotate in a Bear balisong. Some people gave me the "what a nut" look occasionally, but for the most part, no one said anything negative. I still have friends in school and visit them regularly. Once I carried a CS Safe Keeper, after there was a series of robberies and a shooting. The RA in my friends dorm saw it, but didnt make to big a deal out of it, and certainly didnt ask me to leave or hand it over.
 
Sorry, I didnt make my point. Basically just keep a low profile. If you take out the balisong, just make sure you use it for some thing innocent and safe, like sharpening a pencil. That was the main use for mine, and the only thing I remember anyone saying was "better than any pencil sharpener I've ever used."
 
I have a similar dilemma. Three times last semester the chief of police sent a campus wide email telling students and faculty that there have been attempted muggings on or around campus and that no one has been arrested from those incidents. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT FOR???

I was completely convinced that I am going to carry my bali at all times after that. And now I just feel naked without it, I'm so used to having it in my pocket, or in my new xtreme sheath.

I don't really plan on ever using my knife on a person and I'm sure no one else does, but if I am put in that situation where I absolutely have to, I will.

Just remember, your wallet is less important than your life!
 
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