cool bit on hardness

Matthew Gregory

Chief Executive in charge of Entertainment
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
6,676
I've been seeing some posts that have a peculiar odor to them, so I thought I might take a brief moment and share this excerpt from one of the informative and highly readable pages on the Crucible Steel website. Hopefully it'll help shed some light for folks that are looking to know, rather than guess. I highlighted a couple of parts in bold to draw attention to some of the key parts. No big words, I promise!

Hardness of Carbides

Alloy elements (Cr, V, W, Mo) form hard carbide particles in tool steel microstructures.
The amount and type present influence the wear resistance.



• HARDENED STEEL • 60/65 HRC
• CHROMIUM CARBIDES • 66/68 HRC
• MOLYBDENUM CARBIDES • 72/77 HRC
• TUNGSTEN CARBIDES • 72/77 HRC
• VANADIUM CARBIDES • 82/84 HRC

Tool steels contain the element carbon, in levels from about 0.5% up to over 2%. The minimum level of about 0.5% is required to allow the steels to harden to the 60 HRC level during heat treating. The excess carbon above 0.5% plays little role in the hardening of the steels. Instead, it is intended to combine with other elements in the steel to form hard particles called carbides. Tool steels contain elements such as chromium, molybdenum, tungsten, and vanadium. These elements combine with the excess carbon to form chromium carbides, tungsten carbides, vanadium carbides, etc. These carbide particles are microscopic in size, and constitute from less than 5% to over 20% of the total volume of the microstructure of the steel. The actual hardness of individual carbide particles depends on their chemical composition. Chromium carbides are about 65/70 HRC, molybdenum and tungsten carbides are about 75 HRC, and vanadium carbides are 80/85 HRC.

These embedded carbide particles function like the cobblestones in a cobblestone street. They are harder than the steel matrix around them, and can help prevent the matrix from being worn away in service. The amount and type of carbide present in a particular grade of steel is largely responsible for differences in wear resistance. At similar hardnesses, steels with greater amounts of carbides or carbides of a higher hardness, will show better resistance to wear. This factor accounts for differences in wear resistance among, say, O1, A2, D2, and M4. Ideally, tool steels would contain as much carbide volume as needed for the desired wear performance. In fact “solid carbide” tooling is typically 85% or 90% tungsten carbide particles, in a matrix of 10% or 15% cobalt to hold them together. Chemically, the microscopic carbide particles in tool steels are similar to the carbide particles in solid carbide tools. However, very high amounts of carbide particles can lead to problems in grinding, or lower toughness.
 
Something not explicitly said there, but of great importance, is the effect carbides have on edge retention when used in knives. Despite the awesome hardness of vanadium carbide, and the very impressive abrasive wear resistance they measure in their high carbide steels, knifemakers and knife users generally don't see such awesome edge retention in the super steels when used in knives and compared to other well made knives done in simpler steels.

The reason, I think, is that abrasive wear is not the only mechanism at work when looking at edge retention, and the addition of large quantities of various carbides can have a negative effect on the other edge failure mechanisms.

Thus, sometimes lowly 1095 can hold an edge better than S30V etc in a lot of the applications where folks use their knives.
 
Thus, sometimes lowly 1095 can hold an edge better than S30V etc in a lot of the applications where folks use their knives.

Damn every time I think I see the HT light someone quenches it, good read someday I may know more than I know today.
 
A lot of edge dulling is by edge rolling/deformation. This is what allows a smooth steel to work, when used properly, even on very hard steels. My M2 hacksaw blade knife even steels a couple times as long as I use LIGHT pressure.
 
One big issue in knives is carbide pullout, the carbides are brittle, and when you sharpen enough to abrade around them they break and fall out leaving pits with thin rims, and carbides larger than 1 micron actually decrease sharpness while adding "toothiness"

-Page
 
Smaller carbides are better !! CPM types show this. Columbium [niobium ] is very similar to vanadium in carbides as far as hardness goes but it has the advantage of forming carbides throughout the grain instead of concentrating in the grain boundary.
Roman Landes ,over on Hypefreeblades has some interesting comments on that.
 
Back
Top