Copy Cats??????

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creatorss

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I would like to know what others think. In regards to reproduciton of Custom or homemade knives. If a company makes a design, And sell it for $350-$500 to high end collectors. Then a company comes out with a similar frame (Cheaply made of course) And sells it for $20. IS what they are doing wrong?? Of course I would not want the cheap verson for my collection, But people how buy the $20 frame wouldn't buy the Real Deal anyway. If I was a Knife maker I would be pissed. But is there TRUELY anything wrong with that?? I dont mean an exact duplicate either. Just similiar. What do you guys think????
 
I dont really care much for companies who copy designs and the companies that sell them. It is a matter of integrity.
 
I like the real deal better. But with a $320 diffrence in price. I can't afford it. So should I be deprived of that design??
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YES! Most certainly!

What if I have NO money. Should I still be deprived of the design? Maybe I should just break in and steal one of your knives since you're depriving me of it.




Ideas -- designs -- these are property too, legally and morally. They have value. They are worth something. And they have owners. Those owners have the same property rights as the owners of any other kind of property. Those owners can decide how and at what price they they want to sell their property.

You ask, "should I be deprived of a design because you can't afford it?" Let me ask you a question: What right, legal or moral, do you have to that design? Taking that design without the owners permission is no different than taking any other property without the owners permission. It is stealing -- legally and morally. It is illegal. It is morally wrong. And it is sinful.

And if you're selling those illegally stolen designs, then you are no different than a guy who knowingly sells stolen television sets out of the back of his truck. You are selling stolen goods and you are part of the crime.





Down the street from my house is the workshop of a man who makes furniture. It's very nice stuff. That's what he does for a living. That's how he feeds his family. If you were to break into his shop and steal some of his furniture, you'd recognize that as stealing and you'd know it is wrong.

Some people make furniture. Other people make designs for a living. That's how they feed their families. When you steal their designs, what they've worked on and created themselves starting with nothing, you are stealing their livelihoods. You are literally taking the food right out of their children's mouths. It is stealing.




A piece of gravel has very little value, but a diamond has great value. Why the difference? They're both just rocks. Well, the piece of gravel is very ugly and the diamond is very attractive. But it goes beyond that because there are many attractive rocks. A chunk of coal can be sparkly and attractive mush like a diamond. But a chunk of coal has very little value. A bit of gravel is not hard to find. You can pick one up beside most any road. A chunk of coal is a bit harder to come by, but not much. Diamonds, on the other hand, are rare. That's what makes them valuable.

If great knife designs are easy to come by, then way do manufacturers such as the ones you sell for seem to feel the need to copy others? You think it'd be easier to just whip up one of their own.

Knife designs are like rocks. They're everywhere. If you asked, half of the members here could probably show you something they've been kicking around. But great knife designs are rare. Common knife designs are like gravel, virtually worthless. But great knife designs are like diamonds, valuable and sought-after. Again, taking something of value without the owner's permision is stealing -- no two ways about it.
 
I agree that a great design is hard to come by, And personally, I haven't seen any great design copies yet. But "Literally taking the food right out of their children's mouths. It is stealing." I don't agree. Anyone who would buy a $18 dollar version of a $350 custom. Would not buy the custom anyway. If you have created a great design then you could patent it couldn't you?? That would give you legal right to sue anyone who copied it. Why don't knive makers do that??
 
"""Let me ask you a question: What right, legal or moral, do you have to that design?"""



I would have no right to that design. But as a consumer I have a right to purchase what ever I like as long as its not deimed illegal and that means If I like a design and can't afford the original, I have a legal right to buy a knock off. Now morally I don't think its right. As I mentioned before if I were a knife maker I would be pissed!!!! But if people are going to start govening what I can and can't buy when its legal. Then we might as well me comunist. And I didn't serve 6 years in the military to give up rights that easily Moral or Imoral
 
People who make money off the direct designs of others are scum. They are making money off the work of another person. If the maker wanted to make a cheaper version of their knife for mass market consumption that is their choice. Someone else doing it is wrong.

It is wrong plain and simple.

:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:
 
What about the custom makers selling their design to Taiwanese production mnfg. facilities? Here you have Custom Makers,( I really don't think I have to mention names) selling designs to CRKT Co, S&W, and a host of others. Now I can afford decent copies of $300+ Customs for less than $100, does that make it wrong? No, only if they are unlicenced copies, but cheaper copies are a way for people who don't have the money to buy the originals. If it's on the up-n-up, the custom maker makes out anyway.:)
 
If you have created a great design then you could patent it couldn't you??
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The knife designer doesn't have to patent his designs. He already has a copyright on the design. Legally, he has that copyright from the moment he expresses the design (i.e. make a drawing or a model or something.) He can patent a mechanism, a lock mechanism, for example. But "look and feel" aspects of a design are generally protected by copyrights and they are protected, legally, by copyright from the moment of their expression.

Notice, please, that American knife manufacturers do not do knock-offs. Why? Because they know that they would be sued if they did. The manufacturers who make knock-off knives, and watches and everything else, are just about always off-shore.

But, begin off-shore isn't enough. You don't see European knife companies doing knock-offs either. The companies that do knock-offs of knives and just about anything else are just about always in one of several countries that don't respect internationally-respected copyright and patent laws.

For an American knife designer to sue a manufacturer in China, for example, and recover damages is theoretically possible. But, in practice, it's basically impossible.

American designer and manufacturers can stop imported knock-offs of their designs. That is true. Those folks who import knock-off of anything, from blue jeans to knives often see shipments confiscated by Customs because of copyright, trademark, and patent infringment. So, these importers build the cost of Customs confiscation into the cost of doing business. They just jack up the price of the products that do slip through (or, more likely, just reduce the manufacturing cost which is directly related to quality) to leave margin for those that are lost. It's much like retail stores charging a bit more for every item they sell to make up for what they loose to shoplifters. US Customs destroys billions of dollars worth of knock-off goods every year.

American designers can sue the retailers who sell the knock-off products. And if the product was imported, US Customs can come knocking on your door and confiscate it right off of your shelves any day they want to.

Why can they do that? Because the knives are illegal, that's why. The fact that they didn't stop them when the shipment came in, the fact that they didn't knock on your door yesterday, doesn't make the knives legal or beyond confiscation today.

Yes, designers can sue retailers. But, let's face it: there are so many little retailers out there who are basically worth nothing. It's impossible for a designer to hunt down every one of them and sue each of them.

The fact that enforcing their copyright against the manufacturers and the retailers of knock-offs is impractical does not mean that designers do not have copyrights, legally and morally. And it does not free the rest of us from our obligations, legally and morally, to respect those rights.

I, for example, very much admire Tim Herman's Sliver. I'd love to own one. But, I can't afford it. So, I am deprived. When Delta-Z announced they'd licensed the design from Herman and would be, with his full permission and cooperation, making a production version, a knock-off, of it, I was number eleven in line. Unfortuantely, it didn't work out and Delta-Z had to cancel the project. I'm very disappointed.

I still want a Sliver and I still can't afford one. I'm still deprived. But, if you or anyone else was to offer an unauthorized knock-off, I would never buy one and much as I might want to. Why? Because I respect Tim Herman's copyrights. So, I won't buy one even if I could.

Not doing what you want to do and what you could do simply because you know that even though it's possible and practical it is wrong: that's called responsibility.

If you're one of those retailers selling these knock-off knives, you are -- even if you haven't been sued or arrested for it yet -- you are selling stolen goods. It is illegal. It is morally wrong. And it is sinful.
 
This guy is just trying to get customers to come to his site and buy the Strider knockoffs. I was tolerant the first time, but now he's banned for commercial spamming.

Kevin
 
I looked at the knives in question and They aren't even the same. As far as I am concerned Strider's design is a knock off of an Old EK Commando. And as far as buying cheaper versons. I bought the TRench master from that guys sight tonight to measure the quality. I have the Strider verson. And unless its way above and beyond. I will be disapointed for the amount I paid!!!
 
Wow, it's really amazing how you have the exact same IP address as creatorss. It's almost like you have the exact ISP. Almost like you are the exact same person. :rolleyes:

Next time, try to be a little more sneaky when you are trying to spam this board. If you want to sell knives here, you need to pay for a Dealer membership.

Kevin
 
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