Copying Designs

E

ErikD

Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Messages
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I was just wondering what your opinions were on an this issue, under some very specific circumstances.

Say I am just starting to make knives, still learning. Now I want to start grinding my own blades, but don't really want to go through designing my own blade just to get some grinding practice. So I copy an already existing design, just to practice grinding and get a feel for how things should be set up. Now this blade will never be sold, or leave my possesion, it is just a learning experience for me. Once I get decent at grinding I will sit down and design my own blades that I will use, sell, trade, give away, etc. Would this be acceptable?
 
I think this is fine, and even loosely basing/eing inspired by another maker for one you sell is alrigh tin my mind, bearing in mind following things:

If it's a "classic" design, in my mind something like the Loveless Drop Point hunter

If not one of these, ASK the other maker for permission. If they say no, don't do it.

In either case, always give credit where credit is due. If you make a loveless drop point, call it a Loveless style knife, give him his credit.

If you see a design by Trace Rinaldi, or one of the other makers here, and you think hey, I like that general idea, but should change these 4 things, so it's just based on the knife, then ask them before you do it. Knifemakers overall are good people, and happy to help, easy to get along with, etc.

Just my quick thoughts on the subject. There is a thread on this over in the Custom knife forum that's about 3-4 pages long now. a lot of it is more from a buyer/collectors perspective then from a makers perspective, but still a worthwhile read.
 
Crap no!
You copy another maker's design and we'll come git you some dark dark night! You'll never be able to sleep with both eyes closed again you copy cat knife maker you!
 
Bottom line, copying goes on all the time. But if you base a design on someone else’s work, say so and give them credit.
 
Bulldog,,,

While I base my blade design and the heat treatments I use on the knives shown in KNIFE TALK I and KNIFE TALK II, I dont know if I would feel right about saying anything about Fowler's blades to the guys that might be interested in a blade of mine, because His are so much better than mine....

I am trying to build on his ideas, But I am not tring to build off of his name, Ed has helped me out many times when I got stuck,and I sure dont want anyone to think Im stealing from his work...

I have never understood a good way how to both, not confuse people as to my inspiration, and yet still give credit where credit is due???
 
What type of knife design do you want.
I was asked by the son of a recently deceased maker to distribut his
materials and part of his treasure was a box full of templates.
I have spent a whole lot of time scanning them. His son wanted his legacy to continue as a leading teacher in this field.

Sent me an email of what type of knife and I will send some images.
I don't know if they are his own work or images he coppied, many of them are drawn on the back of pizza flyers dated from the 1980's.

The makers name was Lloyd HARDING. He was a very generous man who gave freely of his tallent and always encouraged and helped new commers. He would say there are no new designs. Only variations.

Just address your email subject Blade forum so I know it is not a virus or spam. reg_ellery@optusnet.com.au be prepeared for some delay
I don't log on every day. don't be caught there is an _ between the
reg and ellery
 
It's my opinion (at least on my knives) that I'm sure someone in history has made this or that pattern at some point in time. If I get an idea from a make that I've never seen before, I'll ask them out of courtesy. Folks have done the same for me but, I don't think it's anything to stress about. Just use your better judgement on it and it'll be fine.

But watch out for L6...he'll getcha!
:D ;) :D
 
If there is a particular design that you like, just visualize it and draw your conception out. If you don't have it or a picture of it in front of you when you do this, it will vary from the original and will have your interpretation in design. This takes some practice and work refining the process, but will result in designs that become your own and will probably not too closely resemble the original.
In the thousands of years that metallic blades have been made and used, there are probably no basic designs that have never been made before.
 
If the knifemaker has a US Patent on his design, i.e. Ron Lake, and another knifemaker copies it exactly, then there's room for liable. If one maker is known to make a certain style, but there are no patents, then perhaps the only offense is one of impropriety and lack of respect toward the originality of the first maker's designs.

Like J. said, there really aren't any original designs anymore. All we can do it continue to put our own spins on existing patterns. I'm just putting the finishing touches on a "Semi-Loveless, Semi-Higgins Trout Knife" for my old man for his birthday next month. Its actually a very thin 3" blade, antler handle, naval brass guard and pommel. I'll post a pic when it's done, but the blade is a drop point, yet swoops up slightly like a green river blade. Just right for the big lakers and browns were fish for up here.

So you see, there's no right or wrong. Just revere and respect the elders of this craft. They are our mentors and our leaders. Theie hard work has helped us, just like our work will pave new roads for our successors.
 
ErikD and all,
I admit to copying every blade where I've seen a picture. As part of my learning I took a couple of catalogs and made copies of almost every blade that was offered for sale. These copies were made from plexiglass because I had an unlimited supply from the dumpster of a plastics company. You may want to use cardboard, wood or alluminum or anything else that will give you pratcice. As I was copying I started to make changes that fit my equipment and looked like what I wanted.
The result was that every knife design was different than what I started with.
Unless you are an exceptional maker I wouldn't worry about designs because yours will wind up quite different.
Hopefully still learning, Lynn
 
I made and sold my first knife
in 1974 who's copying whom now a days?:(

A man named Gray invented the phone, bell beat him to the
US Patent Office, copy or not? legal or moral ?

this went around here before.
like said below just use your beanie..
you'll get weeded out in time if you don't.

just do your own thing and find your style now without
the baggage of influence and styles.
GM didn't want their cars to look like Fords
good thing too. :D :D
 
Originally posted by jhiggins
.... I'm just putting the finishing touches on a "Semi-Loveless, Semi-Higgins Trout Knife" for my old man for his birthday next month.
Click to expand...


That reminded me, Bob Loveless said in print, that he copied the design for his drop point hunter, and the tapered tang, from past knives. He just did it better.

Everyone has been influenced at one time or another, by someone else's work. Nothing wrong with that, and most new makers have tried copies of favorite makers work. The problem starts when that's all you do is copy anothers work.

Like has already been said, in the thousands of years that metal knives have been made, there really isn't too much that is new under the Sun. If you don't believe that, get some catalogs from places that sell antique blades, or look up some museum sites on the internet.
It will boggle your mind!

Like Dan Gray said above, "Just use your beanie... you'll get weeded out in time if you don't.;) :D
 
Originally posted by C L Wilkins
Just don't make any bowie knives...:rolleyes:

:D :D :D
Click to expand...
:confused:
That reminds me, if you happen to Make reproductions of the
late greats by request,,
make sure you say it as such.
something like
this is a reproduction of a Michael Price Bowie
and it wouldn't hurt to document it with pictures and dates. :)

Mike
I'm not sure Bob necessarily
did it better, but he sure was in the right places at the right times, that's a sure thing.
I will give credit where credit is due Though.:)
 
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