Correcting a (slightly) rounded tip. Suggestions?

[Sharperthansticks]

In a previous thread, I spoke about turning a knife into a butter knife accidentally, through mishaps in sharpening. That is corrected. However, that knife and another knife still have rounded tips. One knife is ever so slightly rounded, and the other knife has a tip that is slightly more rounded than the tip on the first one. Neither knife has a dull tip, though. So, I have two questions:

1. What is the best way to correct a slightly rounded tip? I was thinking that, on a drop point, taking off a small amount of material from the spine right at the tip would do the job. Thoughts? Suggestions?
2. What is the best way to repair a slightly more rounded tip that is not dull but could be significantly sharper? Would you use the same procedure that you advocated to answer the previous question, or would you use a different procedure?

Imortant note: I am using a WSKO + Blade Grinder, and for the moment, intend to keep this rig, so "Get a Tormec" isn't a valid solution, given my constraints. An acceptable solution is one that can be implemented with my existing equipment.

 

[cbwx34]

In a previous thread, I spoke about turning a knife into a butter knife accidentally, through mishaps in sharpening. That is corrected. However, that knife and another knife still have rounded tips. One knife is ever so slightly rounded, and the other knife has a tip that is slightly more rounded than the tip on the first one. Neither knife has a dull tip, though. So, I have two questions:

1. What is the best way to correct a slightly rounded tip? I was thinking that, on a drop point, taking off a small amount of material from the spine right at the tip would do the job. Thoughts? Suggestions?
2. What is the best way to repair a slightly more rounded tip that is not dull but could be significantly sharper? Would you use the same procedure that you advocated to answer the previous question, or would you use a different procedure?

Imortant note: I am using a WSKO + Blade Grinder, and for the moment, intend to keep this rig, so "Get a Tormec" isn't a valid solution, given my constraints. An acceptable solution is one that can be implemented with my existing equipment.

I doubt anyone here would say, "Get a Tormec".

The short answer to your question... practice. Assuming (from your other thread) you're not rounding it off by the belt curling over the tip, here's a few suggestions (in no particular order)...

Lighten the pressure as you approach the tip... since there's less knife on the belt, the pressure will concentrate more at the tip.
Since the angle is set by the belt, make sure you don't lift the handle as you rotate toward the tip... this can dull the tip also. Pull the knife straight around.
This one is a bit harder to explain, but as you approach the tip try and stop as soon as the belt reaches the tip. You want to sharpen up to the tip, but not the tip itself.
Don't use the coarsest belt, so you can see what you're doing, and a bad pass won't re-remove the tip. Medium or even medium-fine is good for practice.

On the drop point, you can take a bit off the spine... but again, you don't want to work right at the tip... start 1/2" or so away, so you don't have a sudden drop right at the tip. To correct from the edge side, again just make alternating passes, following the suggestions above, until the tip is back.

That's my .02.

 

[bgentry]

The answer to all rounded tips is mostly the same: Examine the geometry and correct it to make it pointy. If your tip is "slightly rounded" the geometry might not be obvious. So zoom in. Use reading glasses, or a magnifying glass, or a loupe. LOOK at the tip and find out where it's rounded.

Then make a plan to fix it. Fixing it is generally pretty straightforward: Just draw a curve through the existing metal that ends in a point. What this usually means is that a blob of metal at the tip of the knife is going to get ground away. That blob might be 1/64" wide. Or it might be 1/8" in a very bad case.

The shape of the part you are trying to make pointy determines how much you grind away and at what places. Usually, this means you will spend a lot more time at the very tip than anywhere else. Be careful when you are doing this and remove the blade from the belt often to let it cool. Use water to cool it if necessary. I find that using my other hand to press the blade against the belt, RIGHT where I'm grinding, gives me a bunch more control AND it lets me feel the heat build up, so it doesn't get too hot.

That off hand pressure can really give you extra control over the blade to stabilize it AND concentrate the grinding where it needs it. Your off hand fingers can fine tune the pressure. Observe your work often. Keep using the loupe or magnifier. Adjust as necessary.

Part of what I've just described is covered in secrets #2 and 4. Here's secret #2:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-seven-secrets-of-sharpening.1353408/page-2#post-15569309

Good luck.

Brian.

 

[Sharperthansticks]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I've read several times what the two of you have written, though most of cbwx34's response seemed devoted to preventing future rounding of tips, not fixing existing tips. (The next-to-last paragraph dealt with fixing tips, with the first sentence addressing my proposal, and the second sentence being a bit unclear as to what process they are advocating for fixing a tip.)

 

[cbwx34]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I've read several times what the two of you have written, though most of cbwx34's response seemed devoted to preventing future rounding of tips, not fixing existing tips. (The next-to-last paragraph dealt with fixing tips, with the first sentence addressing my proposal, and the second sentence being a bit unclear as to what process they are advocating for fixing a tip.)

Yes it kinda is, to a point...

A slightly rounded tip needs little more than a regular sharpening, paying more attention to the tip as I described above. If you eliminate what's causing your tips to get rounded, the sharpening will basically restore it.

I would add that bgentry's post, while good, seems geared more to a tip that is broken off... or at least more than just slightly rounded.

 

[Sharperthansticks]

Yes it kinda is, to a point...

A slightly rounded tip needs little more than a regular sharpening, paying more attention to the tip as I described above. If you eliminate what's causing your tips to get rounded, the sharpening will basically restore it.

I would add that bgentry's post, while good, seems geared more to a tip that is broken off... or at least more than just slightly rounded.

Ah. Well, in that case, I'm still doing whatever it is that I'm doing to round the tips in the first place, because I've sharpened a bunch of knives the last two days, and they now are all shaving sharp, but the ones that had rounded tips still have tips that are rounded about the same amount. :-/

Another problem that I have with sharpening knives is that my edges, though they get shiny and sharp, never look as pretty -- that is, as precise -- as they do when they come from the factory; my edges have places where the curve looks squashed a bit, so it's flatter than it should be. It's still sharp and it still cuts, but the shape of the blade is not as precise or as beautiful as it was out of the box, which annoys me. Grrrr.

 

[cbwx34]

Ah. Well, in that case, I'm still doing whatever it is that I'm doing to round the tips in the first place, because I've sharpened a bunch of knives the last two days, and they now are all shaving sharp, but the ones that had rounded tips still have tips that are rounded about the same amount. :-/

Another problem that I have with sharpening knives is that my edges, though they get shiny and sharp, never look as pretty -- that is, as precise -- as they do when they come from the factory; my edges have places where the curve looks squashed a bit, so it's flatter than it should be. It's still sharp and it still cuts, but the shape of the blade is not as precise or as beautiful as it was out of the box, which annoys me. Grrrr.

Hmmm... maybe you should post some pictures of the tips (and edges)... get an idea of what's actually going on here.

The edge problem you described is probably related to what I mentioned earlier... not keeping the blade parallel as you pull it around. (Don't lift on the handle, rotate or twist the blade into the belt, etc).

You might consider video taping yourself and review it yourself... paying attention to how the blade moves, you might pick up on something in the video.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It's just a matter of deciding beforehand if working from the spine, from the edge, or both makes the most sense. Often working from the spine is fine, but other times it may be undesirable due to how the blade nests in the handle or due to the spine shape or what have you. If working from the edge, you have to abrade the edge off in the process and then reset the bevel, so it tends to be a little more work, but sometimes it's the only way to keep it true to the original form.

 

[bgentry]

Ah. Well, in that case, I'm still doing whatever it is that I'm doing to round the tips in the first place, because I've sharpened a bunch of knives the last two days, and they now are all shaving sharp, but the ones that had rounded tips still have tips that are rounded about the same amount. :-/

Slow way down as you approach the tip and *watch* what you are doing. Specifically try to see the contact patch between the blade and the stone. You are probably doing one of two things: Not going all the way to the tip, or going past the tip. Either one will keep a rounded point rounded. You should also use sharpie (marker) on the edge of your blade so you can see where you are removing metal (and marker). Before I learned to make sharp tips, I always had marker left over at the tip of my blades. Hmmm, I wonder why they didn't get sharp?

Once you see what you are grinding, you'll have a good idea of what you should do to correct it. Reapplying sharpie often can be very helpful in cases like this. A loupe can be very helpful also. It can help you see the grind lines and really figure out where you are grinding, it what direction, etc.

Good luck.

Brian.

 

[Wowbagger]

I can't stand it anymore.
I had to say something :
prefaced with : UNLESS you are one of the pros here.

Sharpening a tip on a belt grinder is not only dangerous but just asking for disaster as far as tip shape. One does not need a power grinder to do what a few well placed licks with a stone can do.

The answer to all rounded tips is mostly the same: Examine the geometry and correct it to make it pointy. If your tip is "slightly rounded" the geometry might not be obvious. So zoom in. Use reading glasses, or a magnifying glass, or a loupe. LOOK at the tip and find out where it's rounded.

This for sure ^ ^ ^

Heck if nothing else clamp the blade in a vise with a thick leather or rubber pad wrapped around the blade and use a stone free hand to "file" the point to the shape you want.
From there . . . in the future . . . when Santa comes aknockin' . . . loose the belt grinder and get a guided sharpener and set the bevel to apex at your already formed "filed" tip.

I was trying to watch YouTubes on a Buck 102 the other day and people were putting that little knife in their noise and vibration generator ( blade grinder ) and I winced every time. I couldn't watch. Talk about over kill. Then they made a few half hearted swipes at some paper and quit before anybody noticed it didn't actually cut the paper for sheeeet.

Light touch.
Light touch doesn't include POWER GRINDERS unless you are Charlie Mike and other Pros here who spend all day everyday making knives. That isn't you and I dude.

 

[Sharperthansticks]

I can't stand it anymore.
I had to say something :
prefaced with : UNLESS you are one of the pros here.

Sharpening a tip on a belt grinder is not only dangerous but just asking for disaster as far as tip shape. One does not need a power grinder to do what a few well placed licks with a stone can do.



This for sure ^ ^ ^

Heck if nothing else clamp the blade in a vise with a thick leather or rubber pad wrapped around the blade and use a stone free hand to "file" the point to the shape you want.
From there . . . in the future . . . when Santa comes aknockin' . . . loose the belt grinder and get a guided sharpener and set the bevel to apex at your already formed "filed" tip.

I was trying to watch YouTubes on a Buck 102 the other day and people were putting that little knife in their noise and vibration generator ( blade grinder ) and I winced every time. I couldn't watch. Talk about over kill. Then they made a few half hearted swipes at some paper and quit before anybody noticed it didn't actually cut the paper for sheeeet.

Light touch.
Light touch doesn't include POWER GRINDERS unless you are Charlie Mike and other Pros here who spend all day everyday making knives. That isn't you and I dude.

I am guessing that, as a kid, you were forced to walk to school and back without shoes, and both ways were uphill -- and that this created gumption, damnit!