Cost of making a knife

M

mrandersdk

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Jan 17, 2013
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Hello, I'm new to the forum.

I've recently become interested in knife making (have not made a knife yet). I like to buy quality knifes to use in my kitchen and thought it would be interesting to actually know how they are made. I have ordered some books on the subject from amazon that i found recomended on the forum.

I then came to wonder, how much does it actually cost to make a knife. I can understand from forum posts that good knives can be made relatively cheap, but what would it cost to make a more special knife like this one:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagy24.html

Asuming i have a complete shop, I'm am a skilled knife maker and that I can forge the damascus myself. All in all just the cost for the actual materials.

The core is super G2 steel from japan, I have not been able to find a place to buy it so i can check the price. Is it even possible to get hold of as a ameture knife maker. I have found the factory that makes it but can't find information about price (http://e-tokko.com/eng_original_list.htm)

Hope someone can help a noob.

Thanks in advance.

Ps. I live in denmark (Europe), so suggestions of places to buy things would be great if they are placed in europe (i save the import tax) or at least they should send materials to europe.
 
The steel for a Gyuto knife can be purchased from Dictum, in Germany. Workshop Heaven, in the UK, also sells some of the Hitachi steels.
What you want is a laminated billet with a hardenable center and softer sides. There are several types available. The core should be Hitachi blue or while paper steel. Dictum also sells the classic handle blanks. They now also sell the blades as blanks, with the profile properly shaped. They are pre-beveled, but still need some work to finish.
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Staehle-3624_3628.htm
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Fuer-japanische-Kuechenmesser-3536_3868.htm
http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/steel_billets.html
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/medias/sys_master/124_01_M_WE_D_en.pdf


As to the cost of making a knife,...... beyond the steel and the handle material,you need the tools. This can be as simple as a few files and a stack of sandpaper, or as complex as a shop filled with $100,000 in tools. The blade will need to be heat treated to harden it, which can be sent out to a professional facility that does this, or another knife maker who has the equipment and experience.

If you went with a pre-shaped blank, and a handle blank, the basic cost would be about 80 Euros. The blades also come as finished blades, and only need the handle attached and some final sanding. Those also come in suminagashi ( damascus layered) sides. One of those for a 180mm gyuto and a handle would run you about 120-130 Euros. This would most likely be a better knife than the one in your link.

BTW, Gingami 1 and Gingami 2 ( Gin/1 and Gin/2, G1 and G2) are good steels, but the blue or white paper Hitachi steel is preferred by professional chefs for their best knives.
 
The two most expensive parts would be the G2 powdered steel billet for the core, rough guess, $50, then your ironwood scales could also run that much or more. Another $60 for steel to make the pattern welded outer and the steel would cover several knives, but, hard to buy just enough for 1 knife. $15 for the mosaic pins. Then, belt cost, lets say $10-15 as some use could be used on other blades, some ferric chloride which would be reusable. Propane for the forging $20. Sandpaper selection, $20 with leftovers. Heat treat $20 with shipping. Blood (and bandages lol) sweat and tears at $10 an hour $300 +-

Then there are the tools, grinder $500-$2000, forge $50-$500, hammers, anvil, files. etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .

That isn't that bad of price for that knife.
 
ib2v4u said:
The two most expensive parts would be the G2 powdered steel billet for the core, rough guess, $50, then your ironwood scales could also run that much or more. Another $60 for steel to make the pattern welded outer and the steel would cover several knives, but, hard to buy just enough for 1 knife. $15 for the mosaic pins. Then, belt cost, lets say $10-15 as some use could be used on other blades, some ferric chloride which would be reusable. Propane for the forging $20. Sandpaper selection, $20 with leftovers. Heat treat $20 with shipping. Blood (and bandages lol) sweat and tears at $10 an hour $300 +-

Then there are the tools, grinder $500-$2000, forge $50-$500, hammers, anvil, files. etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .

That isn't that bad of price for that knife.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that answer. I know that knife making is not worth it if you count in the hours;), but hopefully it should also be fun doing it. But i guess if the materials for the knife would be so expensive that I couls just as well buy it made, their is no point in doing it. But as far as i can't understand the materials are not that expensive.

Just to make sure. The steel for making the damascus sides would cost me about $60, but their would be enough for maybe three knives? Then gas, belt and sand paper would be about $20 a knife. Heat treatment would be $20 (assuming i can get three treated for the price of one). Then $15 for mosaic pins per knife. That is the final price would be (if i put blood and sweat in for free):

Roughly $100 per knife, if their is enough wood and sg2 steel for three knife in the price you mentioned

Roughly $170 per knife, if their is only wood and sg2 steel for on knife

Does that sound right?

Anybody know where it is possible to order sg2 steel.

@bladsmth: I've seen that it is possible to buy already made billets, and maybe thats the way to go, was just interested in the price, if i made a lot of the work from the beginning. Anyway, if I try to make my own knives I will start with a much simpler project. This was just a question to find out if it is possible to make really quallity knives at a much lower cost, if I at anytime get skilled enough. Just so I can have a goal with it all, besides having fun doing it.
 
:D$170 for the consumable materials is likely close.

I started off making "a knife" $10,000 in tools and material and a new shop later...

Material costs for the steel and hardware are usually inexpensive. Especially when material from one knife can be used on ten... Start adding fossil mammoth ivory, ancient walrus etc and then the cost per knife skyrockets.

What's your purpose of figuring cost of the steel? To make a Damascus/SanMai blade that thin, wide and straight would realistically cost you $20,000 by the time you bought a forging press, dies, grinders, etc...might even need a rolling mill. :D

To be honest. I should have spent $1,500 on a belt grinder, a decent drill press and files and left all the other tools out of it. Heck, TheGeek lives right down the road and he made his first few knives with a file. Lots of guys start with a $5 file and a $10 hacksaw and start making knives. :D
 
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Good Ironwood or any other good scales are expensive. $20 per set is about as low as you will find most quality scales and the price goes up depending on type and figure of the wood. The type of steel you desire for the core would run get you 2-3 knives depending on size for around $50. If you really want damascus with a core of quality carbon steel, you are better off buying it at least at first. That would cost you around $130 for enough for 1 blade. Damascus itself is not that easy and adding a core and keeping it centered is a whole step above that. Not impossible, but not something you are likely to accomplish without a lot of practice. I know I cant do it and keep it straight. Power hammer and press would help. Another thing is I would start out with a straight carbon steel like 1080 first. Damascus is beautiful, but, you owe it to yourself and the steel to refine your skills before you try a knife with damascus. Take it from me I went right to Damascus and wish I had not. I did not have anywhere near the skill to do it justice and I have worked with metal all my life.

It is fun, interesting and a wonderful craft that can be very satisfying.
 
If you can give up on the exclusive steels and go with something else high quality but more available, you can cut your materials costs a lot. Same with handle materials.

If you know someone who can heat-treat one or two for a modest cost, or as a favor, the cost drops further.

I bet you could make a knife that *performs* the same and is nearly as attractive minus the pattern-welded steel for in the neighborhood of $50 in materials and consumables. Of course that doesn't include tools, as mentioned.

Trick is you might have to make several before you're happy enough with one to call it complete. :D
 
Steel and handle material are not that expensive for a single knife, However it is expensive when you realize how much you ruin or do not complete due to the learning curve of producing a quality product.
 
Ok thanks.

As I said I would never start by making damascus steel with a core, I would go for something much simpler to start with, just single piece of steel, and something rather cheap I would not cry over, if I ruined trying. Just liked to know what it would cost to make that kind of a knife. I will also wait until i have read the books I ordered before starting to purchase anything. But if you guys think it is possible to make such a knife for a skilled knife maker with the right tools for 100-150$ in materials then it is something to aim for, even though it takes years (maybe forever) before I can attempt to make such a knife.

Can see your point about keeping the core steel straight, actually wondered how one made sure that the core steel remained centered such that it remains the cutting edge.
 
That is one of the biggest problems with making san-mai. I have seen billets from very good makers that were at a serious angle, or wavered like a snake.

Using Hitachi blue or white paper steel, and making a basic Gyuto with files and sandpaper would be the simplest way to go. You could use a cheaper steel, like 1095 or a stainless like RWL if you didn't care about the harder blade and better cutting edge. It will save a little, but I would spend the extra money and make a superior blade. The HT can be done by anyone in your area who is familiar with kitchen blade HT. White paper steel should run about 30 Euro for a 1/2 meter by 30mm bar. A three layer billet 1/3 meter by 33mm is 19 Euro in blue paper steel, and 16 Euro in white paper steel.
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Staehle-3624_3628.htm
 
Well if were talking about the construction of elite quality kitchen knives, thats a whole other animal!
Start with paint sticks and buy a 2x72 grinder, youve got to first find out if you can even grind bevels!
Devin Thomas smashes phenomenal steel, and sells quality kitchen knives, but to touch his steel that 170 is gone! I was holding a piece of Damasteel the other day that came in at something like 30 dollars an inch!!!
Theres alot of time, energy, and money that goes into this hobby.
Greg
 
I have used that same steel. It will make an excellent 175mm Gyuto blade, with a 75mm tang. You will have to use a western grind (which will be easier,too).

The sticky at the top of the Shop talk page on "How to Instructions for Making a Knife" has a lot of good basic directions that will apply to your knife. The handle will mount different, but the filing and sanding will all be the same.

The Ho wood handles (Japanese magnolia) are available on the "accessories" page:
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Zubehoer-fuer-Messerbau-3536_3872.htm
 
Ive been 'playing' knifemaker for about 5 years. Ive done some complicated damascus work and got quite good at the welding. Got more in tools than you can imagine. Ive made a sword with 9 bars, and can weld stainless to stainless. The funny thing is ive gone back to basics and started to do some simple kitchen knives, im not quite there yet but making some advances. The simple stuff is deceptively tricky!

This is the last one I made, about $10 in materials, prolly the same in consumables. Does not look anything but took all of my knowledge to get it right. Distal taper when the thickest bit of the blade is 2mm, and a full flat zero grind just take practice and confidence at the grinder, the cost is nothing but the experience is invaluable !

might be the first knife ive shown on this forum... be gentle ;)

IMG_1488a.jpg


IMG_1484a.jpg


IMG_1490a.jpg
 
I will be happy to encourage you to pursue this art. The great thing about knives is your only limit is yourself.

Material cost is a small factor on most knives.

I have free scrap steel that is 1080 carbon steel. I can use that to forge a knife, add scales from a some black walnut with copper pins from scrap copper wire and make a beautiful knife for zero cost.
I could even get scrap 15N20 bandsaw blade metal to make San Mai/Damascus knives like the one you linked for almost zero cost. All assuming I had the skill( I DO NOT )

It's a marvelous thing about creating something like a knife, a piece of fine futniture, or any other handmade tool. Most of the value comes from the artists skills, vision, function and market.

YOU, Mr Anders, can be a great knifemaker. A maker here used to sell knifemaking kits.
It'd be a knife blank profiled and drilled with handle material and instructions?? Am I remembering right? Then a few files were added so you could, with a c-clamp and sandpaper, make a knife.
The point being you don't need a lot to make a knife. I have knifemaking tools I bought that I have never used yet..

Depending on how you want to start, tools, money and space available, you could make a knife this week!

And don't worry. Being skilled and making great knives might not come easy, but it's attainable with work. (I'll let you know when I become skilled if my theory is correct).
 
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Well, material costs for SOME knives may be that small but when I make a folder for a collector the material costs often run over $350. The most plain 3 1/2" blade hunting folder with M390, or Elmax after proper heat treatment, no bolsters but say G-10 scales , grinding belts and other necessary screws , minimum cost is about $100 for materials. No, the carbon steel thing for me doesn't sell and grinding belts are far more than $1.00 each. When one reaches out to what are often concidered more fancy and desireable materials, the costs certainly increase. Frank
 
As pointed out the cost can vary by huge amounts depending on material selection, size and design.

I do believe you would be happier in the long run to make an initial knife using a plain steel like 1080 and a descent piece of wood. That way you see what your challenges are and have an opportunity to tune in your methods and design. You should get a serviceable knife and then when you spring for the high dollar materials you will be better able to come out with that beauty you have in mind. I learned a lot on the first ones I made and after a couple 100 I still learn a little with every one I make. The first ones especially there was that if I just would have done this or that. Once the steel or wood is gone its gone and some steps are about as easy to start over as redo. But, knife making can give you a lot more than just a great knife. I truly enjoy most of my time in the shop and get a great kick out of my finished knives.
 
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