Council Tool Boy's Axe 2.25lbs Chops Seasoned Blue Gum Experiment

BluntCut MetalWorks

BluntCut MetalWorks

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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As purchased: 2.25 lbs head, 1080 steel, edge hardened ~55-58rc, 25 degrees slight convex grind, ~40 degrees edge, 28 inches curved handle

Will modify it to experiment specs: full hardened 62-63rc, 17 degrees flat grind bevel, 30 degrees edge

Blue Gum Characteristics: Janka 2370 lbf, MoR 135MPa, EM 18.8GPa (https://www.wood-database.com/blue-gum/). Here is my recent video - chopping blue gum: youtu.be/7S7-v-UNXa8

Appreciate any advises/thoughts - should I consider before go forth with this?
 
You seem to be making a lot of very square blows to the wood. For proper cutting performance you'll find better results cutting diagonally, at about 45°to the wood. Also, as-purchased it's likely the hardness is closer to 52-54 RC.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
You seem to be making a lot of very square blows to the wood. For proper cutting performance you'll find better results cutting diagonally, at about 45°to the wood. Also, as-purchased it's likely the hardness is closer to 52-54 RC.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll do more 45* angle chops, perhaps easier to do so with a lighter 2.25 lbs axe head. You are most likely right about the hardness, since many *as purchased* axe reground edges to 17*, they failed (rippled, rolled and chipped) when chopping seasoned blue gum log.
 
  • ANSI Standards call for bit hardness of Rc 45-60, at least ½ inch back from the cutting edge. Council Tool internal standards call for tempered bit hardness of Rc 48-55 and we target 1-1/4 inches from the cutting edge. The poll and eye walls are not hardened and remain in the as forged condition.
This is on their website.
 
Christopher_2 said:
  • ANSI Standards call for bit hardness of Rc 45-60, at least ½ inch back from the cutting edge. Council Tool internal standards call for tempered bit hardness of Rc 48-55 and we target 1-1/4 inches from the cutting edge. The poll and eye walls are not hardened and remain in the as forged condition.
This is on their website.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm aware. I retail and regrind their products and based on my experience in grinding other axes and edged tools of certain hardness, about 52-55 is where I'd say most of the heads I've handled have behaved like. Which makes sense, since that's right within their stated range, and softer heads around 48 are basically putting some over-tempered anomalies as "within spec" to reduce failure rate and therefore keep costs low. Erring overly hard would lead to breakages, and thusly limiting how high you extend the acceptability threshold makes sound sense, so they're more permissive at the softer end where the edge holding will suck but it's going to dent rather than chip if subjected to failure-inducing conditions. However, it's definitely uncommon for their heads to run quite that soft.
 
Christopher_2 said:
  • ANSI Standards call for bit hardness of Rc 45-60, at least ½ inch back from the cutting edge. Council Tool internal standards call for tempered bit hardness of Rc 48-55 and we target 1-1/4 inches from the cutting edge. The poll and eye walls are not hardened and remain in the as forged condition.
This is on their website.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Well, low 50's RC is sure easy to file but no fun chopping blue gum using a thick (huge speed bump) edge, hence will experiment with much thinner edge geometry.

FortyTwoBlades said:
Yes, I'm aware. I retail and regrind their products and based on my experience in grinding other axes and edged tools of certain hardness, about 52-55 is where I'd say most of the heads I've handled have behaved like. Which makes sense, since that's right within their stated range, and softer heads around 48 are basically putting some over-tempered anomalies as "within spec" to reduce failure rate and therefore keep costs low. Erring overly hard would lead to breakages, and thusly limiting how high you extend the acceptability threshold makes sound sense, so they're more permissive at the softer end where the edge holding will suck but it's going to dent rather than chip if subjected to failure-inducing conditions. However, it's definitely uncommon for their heads to run quite that soft.
Click to expand...
True that 48+rc steel can bust up any woods given adequate edge geometry. However chops dried woods with thick geometry, where re-bounce might jarring one's teeth 🙃
 
Just resumed BCMW's work after 5 months break.

Council Tool Boy's Axe 2.25 lbs, 28" handle, 1080 steel 64+ rc
15* degrees bevel, sharpened edge ~30* degrees *inclusive

Chop dried seasoned blue gum tree trunk

Result: Success - chopped remaining 2/3 of 24" diameter blue gum tree trunk

 
I have one of those too- bought it for my daughter. Its a great axe, swings fast and easy. I use axes mostly for splitting, this one is up for kindling and smaller stuff; but its great for chopping out english ivy which otherwise gets a bit tiring with a hatchet.
 
You also should have cut off that protruding wedge sticking out the top of the head before chopping.
 
I put Council hafts on two of my splitting axes. I've been working them hard the last week splitting a bunch of elm and black locust we've been cutting out of the local rails-to-trails. 2 cords done at this point and double that still to come out. I really like how my gloves are polishing the hafts. I do have a Council 5lb splitting axe in play also, it turns out to be handy and fast for breaking the larger rounds & never sticks badly, so I can leave the maul & wedges for the tougher stuff.
 
BluntCut MetalWorks said:
Just resumed BCMW's work after 5 months break.

Council Tool Boy's Axe 2.25 lbs, 28" handle, 1080 steel 64+ rc
15* degrees bevel, sharpened edge ~30* degrees *inclusive

Chop dried seasoned blue gum tree trunk

Result: Success - chopped remaining 2/3 of 24" diameter blue gum tree trunk

Click to expand...

So, If I understand correctly, you've re-hardened the axe head so that it holds an edge better.

I watched half of your video and the axe does seem to be biting into that wood very well. So good job. It seems your objectives were met.

I'm not bothered by the flip flops. However, if you are interested in axemanship, you'll practice your left hand swing. You right hand swing seems good but when you chop on the left side of the log you are not swapping hands. You are keeping your same right hand swing and attempting to chop across your body with it - so your left hand chops are more vertical than 45 deg. I think there's a name for that, like cross arm swinging or something. I used to do that also, before I learned how to swap hands and chop both ways. For me at least, doing this greatly increased the efficiency of my chopping. It might feel awkward at first, but you get used to it quickly and not I can probably chop about as good either side. Just a suggestion if you are planning to do a lot of chopping. If you are primarily into metal work and just the occasional test chop. no worries.
 
FLINT77 said:
So, If I understand correctly, you've re-hardened the axe head so that it holds an edge better.

I watched half of your video and the axe does seem to be biting into that wood very well. So good job. It seems your objectives were met.

I'm not bothered by the flip flops. However, if you are interested in axemanship, you'll practice your left hand swing. You right hand swing seems good but when you chop on the left side of the log you are not swapping hands. You are keeping your same right hand swing and attempting to chop across your body with it - so your left hand chops are more vertical than 45 deg. I think there's a name for that, like cross arm swinging or something. I used to do that also, before I learned how to swap hands and chop both ways. For me at least, doing this greatly increased the efficiency of my chopping. It might feel awkward at first, but you get used to it quickly and not I can probably chop about as good either side. Just a suggestion if you are planning to do a lot of chopping. If you are primarily into metal work and just the occasional test chop. no worries.
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Thanks, agreed - objectives were met. I bought another axe to re-hardened for testing with chopper edge geometry, also will weld 1 extra pound to the pull.

Appreciate your excellent observation and suggestion on swapping hands. Initially I thought swap hand for left swing would be difficult since I am lousy at left-handed golf swing (umm could have avoided +2 strokes yesterday) however just tried a bunch of chops = my left-handed axe swing is good. Well, maybe I now can try big log chopping challenge ;) (heheh will try this with new axe). Thanks again.
 
I find alternating the grip is helpful with splitting also, if for no other reason sometimes the axes are to the right or the left of the work so its faster and more efficient to use whichever grip doesn't need an awkward hand change after picking up the tool. I still don't have the knack in for a strong well targeted round swing from my right though- I've always done it from the left.
 
gregm32768 said:
I find alternating the grip is helpful with splitting also, if for no other reason sometimes the axes are to the right or the left of the work so its faster and more efficient to use whichever grip doesn't need an awkward hand change after picking up the tool. I still don't have the knack in for a strong well targeted round swing from my right though- I've always done it from the left.
Click to expand...
same here, I can't do the roundhouse from around my right side either. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that. I can only alternate on the standard front chop. in my mind, the roundhouse is only for mauls or sledgehammers.
 
Let's establish a baseline for a brand new Council Tool Boy's Axe and compare against BCMW O1 64rc short axe in light chopping test.

 
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