Council vs. Velvicut: Nuts & Bolts

[cm_bushman]

First of all, I'm no expert when it comes to axes. In fact, I just developed an interest in them about six months ago, at which time I acquired a few old heads and began reading.

A few of those heads were fairly new Council Tool Hudson Bay axes, which after a cursory glance at them online, I first dismissed because of their low price and wide availability even at big-box stores. (I've found these things to be a pretty easy indicator of poor-quality workmanship in tools like these). However, after a little time, both with the heads themselves and reading online, I found the Council Axes to be fair to very good, USA-made axes that even more surprisingly didn't cost an arm and a leg. Suffice to say, it wasn't long until I was eying Council's Velvicut line, at four times the price of most "normal" Council offerings.

A bit before this, however, I was also reading into fantastic restorations of old axes in preparation to hopefully restore a few of the more worn heads I mentioned when I began to see examples of how CS Trail-hawks, sub-$20 Vaughn hand axes, and even Estwing and Gerber axes could be optimized into top-shelf specimens by grinding and filing the heads and adding a generally higher level of finish, all of which could be done on a shoestring budget provided some patience and a steady hand. This made me question the value of the Velvicuts in comparison to the regular Council axes, and so here I am.

My slightly belated question is, how do the Council Hudson Bay and Velvicut model of the same compare in both technical specs (steel, geometry, balance) and practical use? I'm suspicious that the higher-end model is simply provided a nicer handle and lighter, more detailed finish without actually changing much if anything about the head itself.

I hope this is not the case, since Council seems to be a great company still making their fine product domestically, but if it is, I'm wondering how hard it would be to make a Velvicut from a Council...

 

[Square_peg]

The Velvi-cut line is made with 5160. IMO that's better steel than Gransfors-Bruk uses (a 1055-like steel). So it's better steel plus better fit and finish. There's certainly some added value there. Whether it's worth the extra money is up to the individual. For casual use the regular Hudson Bay would be just fine. But if money's not an issue the Velvi-cut is definitely better.

 

[cm_bushman]

Thanks Square_Peg, the different steel is exactly what I was hoping to find. Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know what steel is used in the plain ol' Council line? Either way, I think I'm going to treat the Councils I have to a vinegar and sanding-pad spa treatment soon and see if I can at least dress them up like the Velvicuts, which are very nice looking axes!

 

[Square_peg]

......do you happen to know what steel is used in the plain ol' Council line?

I sure don't.

 

[killa_concept]

The Velvi-cut line is made with 5160. IMO that's better steel than Gransfors-Bruk uses (a 1055-like steel). So it's better steel plus better fit and finish. There's certainly some added value there. Whether it's worth the extra money is up to the individual. For casual use the regular Hudson Bay would be just fine. But if money's not an issue the Velvi-cut is definitely better.

Don't personally own a velvi-cut, but I do own some kukris made of 5160. It's pretty amazing stuff for tools that are going to be subjected to chopping and heavy impacts. It's tough and can retain a relatively hard (mid to high 50s hrc) edge quite well. It also has a wee bit of chromium (less than a %) which on top of giving the blade the added toughness, also makes it just ever so slightly more corrosion resistant and REALLY take a shine if you decide to polish it up when compared to plain carbon steels (10xx).

That said, there's a lot of confusion as to the steel GB uses since they don't outright specify. We know for sure that it's a proprietary swedish water-quenched .55% carbon steel that wetterlings and hults bruk also use. A lot of people say it's 1055/EN9 (based on it being water quenched and the .55% carbon content) but I feel like it might have some other minor additives (small bit of chromium?) as my GB and wetterlings axes seem a bit tougher and more wear resistant at 57hrc than other tools I've owned in 1055 (which are generally kept at 52-55). That or they just really know how to heat treat the steel

...do you happen to know what steel is used in the plain ol' Council line?

Considering that they aim for 48-55 hrc as well as the price point they offer the axes at, probably 1050 or 1055. A simple steel that's a good bit cheaper than premium steels like 5160 but tried and true for impact tools that need a fair bit of toughness.

As for your main question
The added premium of the velicut line really comes down to the added labor time more so than it does materials involved. Labor is generally the costliest portion of production and we're talking about US manufacturing wages here. As opposed to their regular line, you're also paying for someone to grind the head down to a nice finish instead of painting it. Also added time to get the edge geometry just right when compared to the DIY edges you'd find on axes destined for the hardware store (those horrific blunt 45-60 degree grinds). They mention the handle being of premium grade with good grain and a slimmer profile and while those are nice, it's more a markup since the labor time is still the same for them (someone else makes the handles for their axes most likely). In reality the process does probably take 3-4x longer than producing a regular head, hence the price point.

At the end of the day, it comes down to how much elbow grease you want to invest and how much you value your time. Taking a blunt "hardware store" edge to a working one with just a file is VERY time consuming. You also have to deal with the handle that's on the axe which might be slightly misaligned and of poor grain (or worse yet, painted so you can't tell). I personally find the restoration process very rewarding: the amount of effort and time I invest into restoring a tool is directly proportional to my sense of pride and ownership of it. Also can't put a value on the knowledge you gain from the process IMO. Edge profiles, bit geometry, sharpening and maintenance and well as handle ergonomics if you're hanging/shaping the handle too..