Coyotes vs. mice vs. coyote hunters

L

Luna56

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Oct 9, 2014
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I live back in the woods, a mile from the nearest paved road. Lots of wildlife back here, including deer, turkeys, moose, hawks, owls, otters, porcupines, fisher, coyotes... and mice. Fucking mice.

When a local gun shop held a contest for a free gun two years ago, the prize was awarded to whomever brought in the biggest coyote. For weeks the woods around here were teeming with guys trying to get that rifle. I don't know how many coyotes were killed in that endeavor but I do know that in the last year the mouse population has exploded. I've had to set a dozen traps or so and I get a few mice every night.

My question to those of you who shoot coyotes (offered without prejudice, truly); why do you shoot em?

Cheers!
 
I hunt them because they kill the deer around here are well as other game animals. me and a buddy also use to hunt them and then sell the pelt.
 
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That contest has little to do with your mouse explosion. Coyotes have compensatory natality in that females birth more young when the conditions allow for that. If the population is on a downswing due to human exploitation or natural mortality the following birthing cycles will see more pups born. If the coyote environment is at full carrying capacity for the species females have fewer young. In order to see a long term sustainable reduction in coyote numbers it is necessary to remove 70% of the coyote population for five consecutive years. And then the coyote population requires constant management or they will rapidly fill the voids in their territory with new coyotes. Western and southwestern states have had a long war with the coyote. Government hunters have utilized aerial gunning planes and helicopters, spot and stalk, calling, shoot on sight, dogging, denning, trapping and snaring and even poisoning in attempts to control coyote numbers. All the while the coyote populations have remained stable and even expanded their ranges. A cyclic increase in mice will surely see a cyclic increase in predators such as raptors, fox, bobcat and coyotes. Don't worry, something in nature will come along and capitalize on the mice explosion thus solving your issue.
 
We shot coyotes at the farm under the theory that any we could actually hit was just improving the species. Only ever managed to get two shots off at them, neither was close, turns out a coyote is very attuned to the click of the hammer of a Win 94. Never really worried about doing it seriously, and never lost a calf or cow to coyotes. And we had a surplus of deer, so no worry there. From a mouse perspective though, I'd be wondering more about your snake population. Then again, mice can really explode if the temps are right. I don't think its ever one factor. If it was then whoever was running the counts for the DNR really got the numbers wrong if they were not putting a limit on numbers taken.
 
What's the limit on mice than can be harvested by bow and arrow and shotgun?
 
I've never taken a coyote. They are pretty quick!

We had a farmer beg us to come out and shoot them. A group of coyotes killed two of his dogs, and later, treed his grandkids on a big play toy in the back of the farmhouse. This was years and years ago. I've had other opportunities, where the farmer who's land we were shooting on had asked us to leave the coyotes alone. He had a real rock chuck problem!
 
[video=youtube;G9M3de5mISY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9M3de5mISY[/video]
 
There is no shortage of coyotes. Shooting a few, or a bunch, seems to have little effect on their population. I seriously doubt these anecdotal stories of repercussions of thinning the pack. Personally, I kill every dang coyote I can find, call in, or run up against. They damage many game species, and are so ubiquitous that you see them in broad daylight, in town now.
 
Coyotes are a pain to control properly and throwing bounties and contests just make it worse!'I admit I've done it and still will but you can cause them to force breed and increase in numbers or take too many and have a problem with other critters. They haven't been in a lot of areas for many years and are coming back to areas and people don't know how to deal with them. The same is happing with hogs. Now I doubt the mouse problem is connected but I maybe wrong. It's when they target live stock and enter neighborhoods that they need to be delt with ASAP!
 
GC said:
That contest has little to do with your mouse explosion. Coyotes have compensatory natality in that females birth more young when the conditions allow for that. If the population is on a downswing due to human exploitation or natural mortality the following birthing cycles will see more pups born. If the coyote environment is at full carrying capacity for the species females have fewer young. In order to see a long term sustainable reduction in coyote numbers it is necessary to remove 70% of the coyote population for five consecutive years. And then the coyote population requires constant management or they will rapidly fill the voids in their territory with new coyotes. Western and southwestern states have had a long war with the coyote. Government hunters have utilized aerial gunning planes and helicopters, spot and stalk, calling, shoot on sight, dogging, denning, trapping and snaring and even poisoning in attempts to control coyote numbers. All the while the coyote populations have remained stable and even expanded their ranges. A cyclic increase in mice will surely see a cyclic increase in predators such as raptors, fox, bobcat and coyotes. Don't worry, something in nature will come along and capitalize on the mice explosion thus solving your issue.
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GC, Your thoughtful and factual post is much appreciated. We are, however, talking about two different things.

I am talking about short term here The sudden decimation of our local coyote population has had a great effect on rural life here. Everybody in my neck of the woods has observed an absence of coyotes and an abundance of mice, rats and squirrels. "Compensatory natality" requires at least a breeding pair or two. Coyotes breed once a year, maybe twice. Rodents reproduce more frequently and with greater numbers off offspring. Owls, though plentiful here, pick off one or two mice a day if they're lucky. Coyotes will consume dozens or more if they can. Coyotes will take a deer if they can but from what I know and have been able to learn from local Fish and Wildlife folks, they're not a major threat to deer. Cars cause way more deer fatalities.

The coyote hunt I referred to had a sudden and significant impact on my local population. Nobody in town saw or heard one all last year. Again, I'm not talking about long term stability of coyote numbers. What I'm saying is that the sudden and sustained reduction in their numbers has aided the rodent population in the short term. Coyotes and foxes are the top mouse munchers here. Fox numbers are down here and coyotes took a big hit two years ago.

Now they're returning and not a minute too soon. I'm hearing them regularly, at some distance, and actually am hearing two right now!
I have no doubt they'll capitalize on the blooming mouse population.

Cheers!
 
Coyotes are not a huge threat to adult deer, but I think they would take a young fawn in a second. Our deer numbers have dropped over the last few years due to disease. I shoot every coyote I get a chance at, in hopes that it means another fawn or two makes it adulthood (and into my freezer).

There is a fine line between appropriate population control and killing too many, and it is hard to tell the difference. In my neck of the woods, many of the coyotes are unhealthy. Terrible mange or similar skin disease. In the past year, I have taken 5 coyotes off of the 300 acres that I hunt, and still catch them on my game cameras.

I can't say for certain that the rodent population has increased, but even if all the coyotes are killed, there is still fox, feral cats and birds of prey that get their fair share.
 
cbwoods67 said:
Coyotes are not a huge threat to adult deer, but I think they would take a young fawn in a second.
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This. A coyote population growth will decimate your future years deer due to the loss of young deer.
 
SVTFreak said:
This. A coyote population growth will decimate your future years deer due to the loss of young deer.
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A coyote population growth "may" decimate the future population due to loss of young deer. Good point. But coyotes are still not a significant a threat to deer statistically as far as I know.

Around here, when the coyote population was thriving, so were the deer.

Cheers!
 
Been thinkin bout goin down to Owl Mart and picking up some owls.
That was just the nudge I needed.

Cheers!
 
Luna56 said:
Been thinkin bout goin down to Owl Mart and picking up some owls.
That was just the nudge I needed.

Cheers!
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Go down to the local animal rescue center and get yourself a couple/three spayed/neutered cats. We had quite a few mice at our house and since we've had the cats, we haven't seen any mice or signs of them. We don't put out any food for the cats - they earn their keep catching mice.
 
Owls and cats... A Great Horned Owl is very likely to eat the cat. The problem with cats is that they don't just hunt mice. They are terrific bird hunters and play hobs on song birds.
 
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