CPK Geek reading

JustinFournier

JustinFournier

Joined
May 7, 2012
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We had a snow day today, and one of the things on my 'To-do' list, way down by the bottom was to take some time to appreciate some of the knives I have that I have been put away for some time.

So I went and got out the sharpest of my Shivs, and pulled up this thread to read while I poured over the details of the one in question.

This thread is something I figure most people here have not read, and since the forum has been a little slow with CPK related chat, I figured now was a good time to revive this bad boy.

Sit back and be awed by the brilliance that is Nathan.


READ ME!
 
Damn, this is my favorite fixed blade knife design of all the knives I own, if I don't count a couple of the Warenskis. I'm eager to jump into the link and hope for complete osmosis, starting tomorrow.

Hope at some point in the new year that Nathan will treat us to one or two runs of the shiv, if his spirit allows it. I feel about the beauty of the shiv as I do about my most beautiful pieces, bar none - because it's design is most beautiful, beyond being a design so purposefully deadly.
 
I agree Bob, the Shiv is just an amazing piece of craftsmanship. Though not engraved, embellished or outwardly artistic, IMO art in it's own way. Created with an extremely high level of skill and executed at first appearances comparatively plainly but if you look carefully, masterfully detailed. It doesn't have the usability of the FK to me, but from a design standpoint astonishingly well done.
 
I think I need another Shiv, lol. Ya think, just speaking generally, that an FK is about equal to a Shiv in value? And in desirability? I think, though built for different purposes, they're comparable. I suppose it always depends on what side of the trade one is working. As in who wants what the most.
 
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It's always who wants what the most IMO. Personally I would give a slight edge in value to the Shiv personally. Fewer made, and currently not in production though not retired. Scarcity basically. Though if I was 100% strictly a user, and of very limited means could see trading a Shiv straight across to guarantee the right FK vs trying to sell outright and risk having zero birds in hand.

For the record, I have paid more for my Shivs on average than the FKs I have. It is accurate to say the cheapest Shivs were only slightly less than the most expensive FKs. I have overpaid for a couple of my Shivs, as in don't think I could sell them for as much as I paid, but that was what the sellers wanted and I was willing to pay to have it. So it is what it is. Those ones would not be something I can really place a fair value on because the future availability (how many and when) is unknown, and future pricing is even less certain. Nathan is keenly aware of the increasing value of his time, and I can't see him going through all the work to set up the fixtures, platens etc for the Shiv and sell them for what he used to a few years ago. Maybe even closer to double ($500?) wouldn't be a surprise. Makers on the market certainly as more than than for much less knife.
 
JustinFournier said:
It's always who wants what the most IMO. Personally I would give a slight edge in value to the Shiv personally. Fewer made, and currently not in production though not retired. Scarcity basically. Though if I was 100% strictly a user, and of very limited means could see trading a Shiv straight across to guarantee the right FK vs trying to sell outright and risk having zero birds in hand.

For the record, I have paid more for my Shivs on average than the FKs I have. It is accurate to say the cheapest Shivs were only slightly less than the most expensive FKs. I have overpaid for a couple of my Shivs, as in don't think I could sell them for as much as I paid, but that was what the sellers wanted and I was willing to pay to have it. So it is what it is. Those ones would not be something I can really place a fair value on because the future availability (how many and when) is unknown, and future pricing is even less certain. Nathan is keenly aware of the increasing value of his time, and I can't see him going through all the work to set up the fixtures, platens etc for the Shiv and sell them for what he used to a few years ago. Maybe even closer to double ($500?) wouldn't be a surprise. Makers on the market certainly as more than than for much less knife.
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I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you say about values between the two. Just depends on the circumstances between traders and who wants what most.
 
I think Nathan has a bright future in the industry, though the decisions he makes now will effect which type of supporters, fans or customers, and what market he is in down the road. That is where we will see what the value of the knives we are admiring today, and if they have much or any value in the future. Personally I am not at all concerned, because I do not care. I admire them for what they are, and derive my enjoyment from that. I do not enjoy the thought that they might be worth more in the future.

If Nathan focuses on production quality working tools priced in the range considered to be very affordable and maintains excellent value, I am sure there will be a low ceiling on some of these knives like the Shiv that have fewer practical uses than something like the EDC or the FK.

As we have seen the secondary market has been pretty quick to snub out attempts at significant secondary market price increases, and I imagine in general the type of people that supported Nathan early on are not the type that bought to resell at a massive profit so I don't think that will change. Nathan is not doing auctions or anything, so I think people feel they have a chance to get a knife without getting gouged, so I think the prices will stay pretty stable.

Looking at something like a Shiv can help people enjoy the brand and appreciate the amount of work and skill that Nathan puts into his knives. They don't need to own one to achieve that. So I think people will be more than happy in general to ogle the fancy model, but buy the practical one.
 
That's twice we agree, now, lol. All I know is that the shiv is my favorite design and one should have more than one of one's favorite design.:)

I'm really glad you posted the link. I've read it again and, while so much of it is too technical for my understanding, it was still greatly informative to me, and a great piece in terms of the quality of writing. I so marvel at Nathan's abilities with regard to the written word.
 
Happy to be of service.... Now if I get you right, you like the Shiv better than your Dagger???

And I agree, you should have more than one.
 
I get the same feeling about the Shiv vs the FK.

And when I finally get in bed looking forward to my 4 hours of certain to be interupted sleep after another 20ish hour day, and my 35 week pregnant wife rolls over and asks me if I want to have another baby....



1jDUlY7
 
Great read. Thanks for resurfacing this, Justin.

Nathan has now hired a knifemaker for the shop. In "help wanted thread" he stated, "So, rather than hire a machinist and try to teach them to make knives, we'd like to hire a knifemaker and teach them how to operate in a machine shop."

After reading that tutorial/WIP post, I am now more surprised by the desire to find a competent knifemaker and teach the machining. Nathan has developed the science of knife machining... seems like that could take years to teach. I suppose it's just human nature to over-estimate the unknown. I don't understand the core machining principles, so to me it seems like an overwhelming body of knowledge.

Great read, and certainly makes me appreciate the quality of the FK I know own!
 
Tony, I can tell you this with 100% certainty. Nathan's body of knowledge is by no means representative of your average Machinist.

Keep in mind that they are working on transitioning more and more to a knife shop. I am not sure they have got to the point they do knives primarily, or are still primarily a Machine Shop.

Having another body there as a Machinist in training, there are tons of tasks that can be completed that will save Nathan time and energy. Even setup, cleanup etc. The shop might not need two Nathans. It's all about division of labour!
 
TRfromMT said:
I suppose it's just human nature to over-estimate the unknown. I don't understand the core machining principles, so to me it seems like an overwhelming body of knowledge.
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Same here, and my wife and I own a grinding shop. We run automated machinery, but no CNC machines. I do understand enough of the machining process to have some idea of the level of Nathan's talent, which is considerable, to say the least.
 
I really appreciate the combination of machining with a high degree of precision and repeatability, coupled with hand grinding and finishing. I have to think this results in a more uniform product. Seems like the best of both methods, and Nathan has certainly perfected the art of machining as much as the aesthetic of the blades. It really is an astounding level of accomplishment on both fronts.
 
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