CPM-10V: suitable for large blades?

A

Altaraz

Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
33
I'm going to get a custom Bowie, possibly from one of the makers on this forum :D First I need to know if CPM-10V would be suitable for large blades (like 10" plus). I would simply ask makers directly first, but I don't want to sound like a complete fool in case my head is in the clouds... I know not too many people even consider working 10V, but what attracts me to it is the great wear-resistance I've read about while maintaining reasonable (D2 class?) toughness. I have a feeling hardening it to, oh, maybe 64 hrc would get the most out of it (that's probably close to 10V limits I would imagine).

What do you think? Is it even reasonable to think that 10V would be suitable for something that big, or am I crazy?
 
I wouldn't choose something like that for a large blade, unless it was needed to cut very large/thick abrasive material. I'm thinking of people like pipe insulators, who might have a use for cutting 8" diameter insulation stock in one stroke. For a large knife that's going to be used like most large knives are, ie very roughly, I wouldn't want it. Do you want it for a specific purpose where that wear resistance would be useful, such as above?
 
The idea would be to use it for hunting purposes (i.e. boning) When doing such chores, edge holding is important (at least, to me it is)... But you're right, toughness is another very important factor. Maybe CPM-3V is a better option?
 
I generally think of a bowie as a large fighting knife or chopping knife. I'm not familiar with it's use for boning. My opinion is somewhat skewed, so take it for what you paid for it. Do you have a knife you currently use that is disappointing for your needs?

For blades of that size, I generally would prefer much softer steel with much less wear resistance. However, my current large blades get very rough use. I shudder to think of resharpening a 10" long blade of 10v after what I normally use my large knives to do, like digging, wood splitting, limbing, etc.
 
Ha ha yes you would normally use a smaller knife for such things. It's just that for me, I prefer bigger blades... must just be my style. I find that, when butchering game, something larger is useful. I am also starting to become invested into carrying fewer tools with more versatility. It really helps to travel lighter when you take long stretches. Don't get me wrong - I still carry a much smaller knife as well. There are obviosuly a great many things that require something smaller.

I have a 10" Linder that I have been using. I love the blade design and it has fantastic toughness. The size is just wonderful, and it's also good for batoning if I need to, etc. The problem is it can't hold an edge. Hardly surprising seeing as it's (I believe) 1065 carbon steel. Maybe thinking of 10V is me going to the other extreme of great edge holding but lacking in toughness.

For chopping and limbing, I would carry a sturdy hatchet on the hip or even a small axe on my pack.
 
10v @ 64 hrc would be a bear to sharpen, especially 10" of it. You'd also be prone to edge chipping. My vote goes to 3V or 4V
 
Hmmmm yes... If I'm not mistaken Fehrman uses 3V for their knives. As I understand it, those knives are well received too.
 
Do you know why the Linder is dulling? In other words, can you tell if the edge is rolling, or if it is getting small chips from bone contact/impact? Is it just from cutting through dirty fur, or do you use another knife for that? Could it be the Linder corrodes very quickly when used in blood and/or wet conditions like rain or something? You don't have a location in your profile, so you could be in a dessert or in a temperate rain forest.

It's important to know because 10V would only solve one of those. Higher hardness and/or higher edge angles limit edge rolling, higher angles and/or higher toughness will prevent/mitigate microchipping, and higher wear resistance copes with dirty fur. Obviously stainless will deal with the corrosion if that is the problem. These may seem rather picky questions, but I'd advise some research into what will solve your problem before shelling out the $$$$ for a large 10V blade.

At the risk of talking you out of a new knife, you might be able to solve your issues by changing sharpening method. Increasing the edge angle can help quite a bit if you are getting damage. Decreasing it can help the knife cut better for longer. I recently reduced the edge angle of my pocket knife and used my coarsest stone for the final edge. It is an edge that must be experienced if you never have before.
 
Altaraz said:
I'm going to get a custom Bowie, possibly from one of the makers on this forum :D First I need to know if CPM-10V would be suitable for large blades (like 10" plus). I would simply ask makers directly first, but I don't want to sound like a complete fool in case my head is in the clouds... I know not too many people even consider working 10V, but what attracts me to it is the great wear-resistance I've read about while maintaining reasonable (D2 class?) toughness. I have a feeling hardening it to, oh, maybe 64 hrc would get the most out of it (that's probably close to 10V limits I would imagine).

What do you think? Is it even reasonable to think that 10V would be suitable for something that big, or am I crazy?
Click to expand...

For what you are going to use it for 10V would work fine.

The problem would be is getting a Maker that will work with it and really knows what they are doing to get the tempering right at high hardness.
 
The Linder isn't chipping so far (thank God). I'd say it is rolling a bit. It IS polished, put that polish only goes so far. I do use it for cutting through the fur as well. I'm actually quite impressed with the low level of staining so far from blood. Having said that I live in a climate that has hot, humid summers and bitter cold, snowy winters. I DID notice the early stages of corrosion on it more than once though. I attribute that to moisture, especially during snowy months. It probably didn't help having it in the original leather sheath it came with, especially when it was wet.

Now the most common complaint I've found online (at least for 3V) is that it microfractures easily. I haven't found enough practical experience info on 10V though to make any kind of real opinion on it. I figured higher hardness would help the cause, as long as the steel can take it without becoming brittle. As for wear resistance with dirty fur: my thoughts exactly. I've strongly considered stainless, but have been hesitant to go that route. Why? Well first I have little to no experience with stainless.

I would LOOOVE to not have to worry about corrosion, especially in my wet/humid environment, but not at the cost of too much performance. Even with recent advances in technology, can stainless really compete with high carbon? I don't know, but most people I've spoken with have said not a chance. Mind you I have been curious about Fallkniven; their VG-10 is supposed to be hot stuff that takes a good edge. I've heard though that their knives have chipping problems. Seeing as how their knives have high hardness, that wouldn't surprise me much.

Research is definitely a good idea :P You can't do too much research! See for the Linder then it sucks because I'm stuck between either using a higher edge angle to stop the rolling or using a reduced edge angle to increase edge retention, which is already a problem.

But then again, EagleScouter has pointed out that something out of 10V that I want may end up being very difficult to sharpen. But the fact is, if it'll get the job done and hold it's edge long enough without too many problems, I may just deal with the sharpening... But hey, there's nothing saying I HAVE to go with 10V. Maybe even 3V like Scouter suggested will do it. High toughness is always an important factor for big knives (as far as I'm concerned anyway).
 
Altaraz said:
I've strongly considered stainless, but have been hesitant to go that route. Why? Well first I have little to no experience with stainless.

I would LOOOVE to not have to worry about corrosion, especially in my wet/humid environment, but not at the cost of too much performance. Even with recent advances in technology, can stainless really compete with high carbon? I don't know, but most people I've spoken with have said not a chance.
Click to expand...
10V is as far from carbon steel as 440C is. It has a 17.5% carbide volume with over 5% chrome and 9.75% vanadium. If you are willing to use 10V, then you shouldn't have any issue picking from any stainless.
 
Ahhhh, well then :P That just goes to show how little I know about 10V to begin with. Thank you for the info!
 
I am having a knifemaker from the forum look into getting me a CPM 10V (or equiv.) small EDC fixed blade made. It is a sub 3" knife he already makes, but he is preparing a quote for me soon. I won't post the amounts we have been discussing, but it's pretty reasonable so far from what I gather. I'll post a review on the steel and blade performance when it's done sometime in the future.

Really looking forward to this kind of performance, but I may have to break down and order an diamond Atoma 140 for my Edge Pro to reprofile it. Eh, small price for big performance.
 
TriviaMonster said:
I am having a knifemaker from the forum look into getting me a CPM 10V (or equiv.) small EDC fixed blade made. It is a sub 3" knife he already makes, but he is preparing a quote for me soon. I won't post the amounts we have been discussing, but it's pretty reasonable so far from what I gather. I'll post a review on the steel and blade performance when it's done sometime in the future.

Really looking forward to this kind of performance, but I may have to break down and order an diamond Atoma 140 for my Edge Pro to reprofile it. Eh, small price for big performance.
Click to expand...


This is a review on a K294 (A11) Custom that I own....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...94-Full-Review-and-test?p=9989386#post9989386
 
Thanks Ankerson. I have been reading quite a lot about A11 steels lately. I am stoked. Its gonna be an EDC, and since I got several 220 and 320 Congress mold masters you recommended I feel really good about 25 degrees inclusive or there about. I'm really gonna do a ton of cutting with this thing. I'm having it ground fairly thin hopefully.

Still a lot of details to figure out but I have a lot of faith in this guy.
 
TriviaMonster said:
Thanks Ankerson. I have been reading quite a lot about A11 steels lately. I am stoked. Its gonna be an EDC, and since I got several 220 and 320 Congress mold masters you recommended I feel really good about 25 degrees inclusive or there about. I'm really gonna do a ton of cutting with this thing. I'm having it ground fairly thin hopefully.

Still a lot of details to figure out but I have a lot of faith in this guy.
Click to expand...


Depending on hardness and the tempering it will do very well ground thin.

It's a VERY aggressive cutter and will hold that edge for a VERY long time.

I have tested both 10V and K294, at 64 for K294 and 64.5 for 10V.
 
Last edited:
Oh man I'm excited. I suspect it will be around 63-64 as we have talked about it being a slicer and cutter and not a sharpened pry bar type knife.

Of course I am getting ahead of myself since I haven't got a green light yet. If all else fails, CPM M4 at a very high hardness is my fail safe. We shall see, but he seems confident CPM 10V won't be a problem.

I know, huge difference between 10v and M4, but I don't feel like I'm settling with a hard M4.
 
TriviaMonster said:
Oh man I'm excited. I suspect it will be around 63-64 as we have talked about it being a slicer and cutter and not a sharpened pry bar type knife.

Of course I am getting ahead of myself since I haven't got a green light yet. If all else fails, CPM M4 at a very high hardness is my fail safe. We shall see, but he seems confident CPM 10V won't be a problem.

I know, huge difference between 10v and M4, but I don't feel like I'm settling with a hard M4.
Click to expand...

Oh there is a HUGE difference between M4 and 10V, really HUGE difference..... Did I say HUGE difference, like not even close.....

There are a few choice in A11 so one of those should be available, if not then K390 will give about the same performance at the same hardness.
 
I do have a question for you Ankerson. Super wear resistant stainless steels have a reputation for lacking toughness. I'm talking about S110V and S125V and maybe even S90V. Now I know a high hardness S110V is supposed to be close to CPM 10V is wear resistance, but how tough is it? The OP referred to 10V as having D2 class toughness, is this true? And if so, how does S110V compare? Maybe 440c toughness?

And yes I know about the enormous difference between 10V and M4. But, I still love M4. Its a good fallback for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top