CPM-3V vs. A2

R

rayback

Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Messages
47
regarding ease of sharpening, edge retention, toughness and other general aspects?

Thanks
Ray
 
3V should be better for anything but grinding, finishing, sharpening, etc.
 
Larrin said:
3V should be better for anything but grinding, finishing, sharpening, etc.
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And several aspects of sharpness, edge holding and cutting, A2 has a significantly higher obtainable hardness, 65 HRC if you hit the first torsional impact maximum.

-Cliff
 
A2 is a fine steel, one of my all time favorites. Don't really know about the comparison but A2 only has around 5% chromium, not the highest by a long shot, so its stain resistance may not be the best. But, it is the best in so many ways, super steel.
 
Redguy said:
CPM3V is made by Crucible of course. Care to tell what is your problem with the company? Or you simply don't like powdermetallurgical steels?
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I have had 3 blades made with the powdered metals from crucible. 2 cpm30 and one cpm 60.

I all cases I found the blades difficult nie unto impossible to sharpen, and the edge wouldnt stay with me very long. One is a Sebenza, a nice knife except for that blade steel. I wont buy sebenzas anymore as long as they are S30V.

CR is listening and they told me a lot of questions/complaints are coming in on S30V. So I know it isnt just me.
 
Thanks a223cat. CPM S60V was an obvious failure, it was woefully brittle, nobody uses this steel anymore. Looks like the jury is still up on S30V, but CPM3V is a totally different animal. It supposed to be a tough and hard toolsteel, and since it is not stainless, it has nothing to do with S30V and S60V.

I never had a knife made from CPM steels, but right now I'm considering a custom made from CPM3V, so I really would like to learn about this steel, especially about it's downsides.
 
Redguy said:
Thanks a223cat. CPM S60V was an obvious failure, it was woefully brittle, nobody uses this steel anymore. Looks like the jury is still up on S30V, but CPM3V is a totally different animal. It supposed to be a tough and hard toolsteel, and since it is not stainless, it has nothing to do with S30V and S60V.
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Exactly, you can't judge an entire steel company's lineup based on three knives.
 
apologize if I jumped the gun. I didnt realize they were not one and the same. I would like for Crucible to do well, as the hype is certainly great, and I really wanted more sebenzas. I just wish they would go back to BG-42
 
Just give a properly heat treated CPM3V blade a chance, and you will forget about any complaints you once had about Crucible's steels.
 
well, up to now, Chris Reeve will not replace my blade to one made of another steel. That is what I care about. spending good money on steel and not finding it much use for me. Why would I trust another specimen of the same company when I have had trouble? Isnt it just easier to avoid a problamatic company? "AB and C will make you nuts, but D is fine!"

No Thank you!
 
I am curious to see what CPM 3V will turn out to be. I think it has great potential from the numbers, but Jerry Hossom just recently alluded to problems it the workpiece isn't cooled fast enough, and Cliff's experiences with it don't seem to have been all that great. I wonder, if it will turn out to become another S30V that is great when it is done right and not so great when not treated properly.
 
a223cat said:
well, up to now, Chris Reeve will not replace my blade to one made of another steel.
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I don't think any production company will do custom steel replacements. The most you could expect is to just get a refund or a replacement and then look for a BG-42 one in the secondary market.

-Cliff
 
HoB said:
I am curious to see what CPM 3V will turn out to be. I think it has great potential from the numbers, but Jerry Hossom just recently alluded to problems it the workpiece isn't cooled fast enough, and Cliff's experiences with it don't seem to have been all that great. I wonder, if it will turn out to become another S30V that is great when it is done right and not so great when not treated properly.
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To clarify. CPM-3V like any other steel requires proper heat treating. If you don't heat treat it properly, you really don't have CPM-3V. Heat treating 3V as with S30V requires a fast quench, and most people who heat treat it know that. I was making that point in response to someone (a custom maker) saying they allowed it to air cool for awhile. It won't fully harden in that case. I made that point as cautionary note, not as an indictment of the steel. 3V is by far my personal favorite for all of the positive reasons given above.
 
HoB said:
Jerry Hossom just recently alluded to problems it the workpiece isn't cooled fast enough ...
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3V is an air hardening steel, that is why it has the high alloy content, though in general there are benefits from more aggressive quenches even on steels which will air harden. The main drawback is just cost. Note in general that P/M steels are actually more forgiving to heat treat not less than ingot steels, this is one of thier advantages which is why it makes no sense to talk about them being so sensitive to proper heat treatment. The properties on paper for 3V are interesting but far too sparce to be really informative. I would also like to see a P/M tougher steel which wasn't secondary hardening. Note Carpenter makes a very similar steel CD #1 for the same purpose, cold work, for a combination of high toughness/wear resistance and they have materials data of interest :

http://cartech.ides.com/datasheet.aspx?i=103&e=292&c=TechArt

-Cliff
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
I don't think any production company will do custom steel replacements.
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With the exception of Buck. The Custom Knife Shoppe is still up on their website, where you can get a Damascus or BG-42 blade put on your Buck 110. I’ve also heard that you can get a BG-42 blade for the 119.
 
Cliff that's simply wrong. On 3V and S30V custom makers generally use quench plates to quickly draw off the heat. Factories use either atmospherically controlled ovens with positive pressure quenching or a salt bath heat treating process. Air cooling of 3V will simply not harden it properly. I've made dozens of knives in 3V and have some knowledge of the subject.

The problem of getting a rapid quench with a large batch of blades is the major reason factories were slow to adopt the steel. They've since solved that problem.

I'll leave it at this because arguing with you is senseless.
 
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