CPM 4 and ZDP 189 ........

C

clockman

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Jan 14, 2009
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Guys that have knives in cpm4 and zdp 189.....how do these two steels

compare to each other in all the usual ways we use for comparision...

ease of sharpening, edge retension, etc., etc.

Is cmp4 Really Worth the extra cost when compared to zdp189??

By extra cost Im comparing the Endura 4 ffg zdp189...about $90 vs.

GB cmp 4 at about $130. GB has much nicer features..yes.

I know zdp is harder to sharpen.
 
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I have no experience with ZPD 189 but I do make allot of knives with CPM M4. M4 is a great knife steal, I use it for may competition cutter and hunting/utility knives.
 
The cost difference is attributed to the addition of CFiber and additional materials to the GBradley, also design and die setups. The Gayle Bradley is more than worth the extra 20 or so.

Also don't forget they are not designed for the same purposes.

Both are great steels..with different qualities ...
 
I didn't run any performance tests on my knives but I did make note of a few things when sharpening them tonight.

All were sharpened freehand on DMT's starting with the black(EC), and working all the way up to the tan (EEF) at 8, 000 grit, followed by a leather chrome oxide strop on all. I tried to give the same strokes to each when working up the grits, but added more when I felt it was needed to get it right before moving on. No large problems were noted, nor any anomalies.

The knives were a benchmade 12800BK-801 Osborne Guacho, an Spyderco Bayle Bradley, both in CPM M4 . In addition, I sharpened a Kershaw Shallot and a Caly jr. , both in ZDP 189

To sum it up the Benchmade in M4 didn't take nearly as fine an edge as either the M4 bradley, and evel less so than either ZDP knife.

The Bradley not only seemed as easy to sharpen, but it took as fine an edge as either knife. Caly jr was easiest to sharpen as it had a super thin blade and final grind. It also took the sharpest edge.

The Shallot in ZDP took the finest finish of all the steels. It's edge was breathtaking. Yes, it would pop hairs, and I Imagine it would whittle hairs if I could hold one. Alas, I don't have the dexterity.

I had been saying the M4 could take as fine an edge as the ZDP since I first got one. It's close, but it's not quite there. Sure it gets thin, and has strength, but there is something about the ZDP that makes it act like no other steel out there. Edge taking is more like Hitachi White, or blue steel than a stainless. Amazing stuff.

CPM M4. IMO, it takes a better edge at RC 64 , and it takes it easier than it does at RC 58-59 ( benchmade)

I love it, and consider it a stronger, more useful steel than ZDP. It too takes a really scarily sharp, biting edge where you can feel the carbides doing their thing. Or I imagine it to be so anyway.

ZDP seems smoother in finished condition.

Not much use, but my observations on sharpening. I've been freehanding since the middle 70's, and can do a fairly good job when needed. I do have a few angle giude systems, but just don't need them. I can get a better feel of a steel with a well broken in, good cutting DMT stone than just about anything else.

Joe/raleigh
 
Joe, do you think the difference between the Benchmade and Spyderco CPM-M4 blades is attributable to hardness, grind, or ?

John

The Mastiff said:
I didn't run any performance tests on my knives but I did make note of a few things when sharpening them tonight.

All were sharpened freehand on DMT's starting with the black(EC), and working all the way up to the tan (EEF) at 8, 000 grit, followed by a leather chrome oxide strop on all. I tried to give the same strokes to each when working up the grits, but added more when I felt it was needed to get it right before moving on. No large problems were noted, nor any anomalies.

The knives were a benchmade 12800BK-801 Osborne Guacho, an Spyderco Bayle Bradley, both in CPM M4 . In addition, I sharpened a Kershaw Shallot and a Caly jr. , both in ZDP 189

To sum it up the Benchmade in M4 didn't take nearly as fine an edge as either the M4 bradley, and evel less so than either ZDP knife.

The Bradley not only seemed as easy to sharpen, but it took as fine an edge as either knife. Caly jr was easiest to sharpen as it had a super thin blade and final grind. It also took the sharpest edge.

The Shallot in ZDP took the finest finish of all the steels. It's edge was breathtaking. Yes, it would pop hairs, and I Imagine it would whittle hairs if I could hold one. Alas, I don't have the dexterity.

I had been saying the M4 could take as fine an edge as the ZDP since I first got one. It's close, but it's not quite there. Sure it gets thin, and has strength, but there is something about the ZDP that makes it act like no other steel out there. Edge taking is more like Hitachi White, or blue steel than a stainless. Amazing stuff.

CPM M4. IMO, it takes a better edge at RC 64 , and it takes it easier than it does at RC 58-59 ( benchmade)

I love it, and consider it a stronger, more useful steel than ZDP. It too takes a really scarily sharp, biting edge where you can feel the carbides doing their thing. Or I imagine it to be so anyway.

ZDP seems smoother in finished condition.

Not much use, but my observations on sharpening. I've been freehanding since the middle 70's, and can do a fairly good job when needed. I do have a few angle giude systems, but just don't need them. I can get a better feel of a steel with a well broken in, good cutting DMT stone than just about anything else.

Joe/raleigh
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IMO, It's hardness. Despite advertising it at RC 60-62 I've never seen a Benchmade that tested above RC 59. It was the same story with the M2 benchmades.

It still makes for an excellent steel, but I like it better pushed a bit harder. It sharpens cleaner and takes a finer edge. I suppose If I was using an old Arkansas medium stone I wouldn't like it, but the diamonds don't care if it's RC 58 or RC 64.

My biggest revelation however was the performance of the ZDP. I've always had the impression that carbon and alloy steels sharpened better ( easier, and with better edges).

I guess sometime in the future I need to move on to testing wear resistance in some way.

I'd lilely do it in some way where I tested the all around wear resistance, not just the same material but actually using it until it can't cut anymore.

Maybe when I put new carpet in later this year. :'
 
The Shallot was the san mai one that was twinned with the 110v Shallot?
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No, It was a composite blade with the top being 14C, and the bottom being ZDP. There is no layers, or cladding as in San Mai ( it means 3 layers). The Kershaw technology fuses the two steels together with a copper alloy, similar to welding two pieces of steel together. It's very strong, and works very well.

The S110V shallot isn't even a composite blade, but a large slab of pure S110V. That's some amazing stuff, but I wouldn't pick it for a knife to try seeing how thin and sharp you can make an edge. It's absolutely stuffed with the largest and most wear resistant of all the carbides ( vanadium and niobium). This makes it one of the most wear resistant of all steels used on a production knife, but not really a steel for "darksiders".

They are getting hard to find now and if you see one, grab it. S110V is the steel that you would want when working with something like dirty carpet that needs huge amounts of wear resistance.
 
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