CPM M4 sharpening...mixing stones

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Dec 21, 2006
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Last year I made myself a hunting knife from CPM M4, and put a quick edge on it. Used it to dress one whitetail last season, and the edge was still super sharp (as expected). We moved just recently, and my mother and wife used my knife for I don't know what, but it was dull when they got thru with it. I didn't mind! I love to sharpen! This was a special HT done by Brad at Peter's, we used no snap temper, direct to cryo, and the low end tempers. 64HRC, with an edge that was about .007" prior to applying the bevel. This is a 14° per side edge...no microbevel. Something interesting happened when re-sharpening I thought I would share with you. I have encountered this before, wasn't too sure, this verified it.

I decided to start with Shapton Pro 1000 grit, as it only needed a bit touching up. I was getting no where fast. (freshly leveled and conditioned stone). I noticed the scratch pattern was hitting the edge shoulder, not the apex....and the more I sharpened, I was not progressing towards the apex, and did not want to raise the angle.

Took out the 1200 Atoma. I like that stone, cuts mega fast, but leaves a coarse, almost striated sort of pattern. This did hit the apex quickly at the same angle 14°.

Went back to the SP1000. Again...scratch pattern shows it hitting towards the shoulder, not the apex. Back to square one.

Raised the angle just slightly, and was then able to hit the apex with the SP1000, continued with 2000 Green Brick edge trailing, then King 4000 edge trailing. It is wicked sharp now.

It is true, some stone combinations don't play well together. It seems there is some difference in the diamond plates hitting an edge vs other stones. My angle was constant, using the Razor Edge guides. To slightly raise my angle, one layer of Duct tape on the guide faces is all it took. The Atoma 1200 would apex easily at the 14°, but the SP1000 was hitting the shoulder, and would only apex with the added layer of Duct tape. I thought that was interesting. I'm thinking, in the future, I may try lowering the edge angle to 10° per side, and then applying 15° microbevel.

Stay sharp!
 
What! You let your wife and mother use your knife? No wonder it was dulled. My wife (of 47 years) is a serial knife abuser :o; she used the first good knife I got her, a Case trapper, to dig potatoes. Camping one time she swatted at a fly; didn't realize she had a knife in her hand. The fly lived and I fixed the cut across my hand with a butterfly bandage. Still have the scar. And my wife:D.
 
Deadbox, crazy enough, I was going to post a pic, but thought, "Ah who wants to see another knife pic?" ha ha! Ed, the knife was taken/used behind my back! If I had known they grabbed THAT knife...out of ALL the knives I have laying around...I would have yelled. "NOPE NOT THAT ONE!!!"

This is an exact copy of my personal hunter. For some reason I don't have pics of mine, I made this one as a custom order for a Bladeforums member. It is identical, except the one pictured is in some other steel. 1.2519 I think it is.

FullSizeRender1_zpsclbmouyn.jpg
 
While it might have done something, the wear resistance is far too high @ 64 HRc on M4 for the Green Brick or 4k King to do its job properly. IMO, you are pushing the limits of the SP1k too.

As for hitting the edge,

It was the difference in feedback that was messing you up, I've had it happen too when switching stones. It's why I promote using matching sets of stones.
 
Deadbox, crazy enough, I was going to post a pic, but thought, "Ah who wants to see another knife pic?" ha ha! Ed, the knife was taken/used behind my back! If I had known they grabbed THAT knife...out of ALL the knives I have laying around...I would have yelled. "NOPE NOT THAT ONE!!!"

This is an exact copy of my personal hunter. For some reason I don't have pics of mine, I made this one as a custom order for a Bladeforums member. It is identical, except the one pictured is in some other steel. 1.2519 I think it is.

FullSizeRender1_zpsclbmouyn.jpg

Haha can't believe you were going to hold out on us :)

That's a good looking blade.
 
Well, I think they should sharpen since they got it dull. Dozier


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Never have enough pics! Very nice knife! :)

Haven't experienced that, will keep watching for the symptoms. Thanks for sharing!

I'm happy if my wife uses my knives & giving feedback which is totally her views on the use without bias. Knife nuts in me usually have biases (this is M4, should cut well ....:D ). She won't abuse it, and her use in cooking is definitely more demanding than my use (office work, occasional paper/tape).
 
It was the difference in feedback that was messing you up, I've had it happen too when switching stones. It's why I promote using matching sets of stones.


I have to agree with this, the difference in feedback is a real obstacle. Tho...when it comes to wear resistant steel using stones that can get it done but marginally, you really have to be aware of that.

Many stones can work steels that they aren't the best choice for, but knowing that ahead of time can get you into the right frame of mind and ready to deal with the shortcomings.

Is best to use the stones/abrasives that work best with a given steel, and within a set if at all practical, but good results can be had with inferior abrasives (for a given steel). I assign a penalty in the grit progression - if a 1k would have been good enough, an 800 should be the stand in. There is a limit but really kicks in at the polishing phase - 4k and up.

The King 4k has surprised me on several occasions with its versatility, the 6k not so much.
 
Thanks Stuart. Does the wicked edge account for the depth of the stone? We have talked a little before about the settings being variable based on stone depth and/or angle of the primary grind of the knife. I don't have a WE so my question is actually a question :D
 
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Thanks Stuart. Does the wicked edge account for the depth of the stone? We have talked a little before about the settings being variable based on stone depth and/or angle of the primary grind of the knife. I don't have a WE so my question is actually a question :D

I'm not Stuart, but I can answer your question... The WE doesn't automatically account for stone 'depth' (I'm assuming you mean thickness). They sell a "Variable Thickness" adapter to adjust between stones of different thickness, but if the none of the stones are the same thickness as the standard diamond stones, you'll pretty much need an angle cube or similar method if you want to set a specific angle.
 
I actually don't use a wicked edge. I use the Razor Edge systems guides. They clamp on the knife blade itself, allowing you to sharpen "free hand" on any stone of your choosing.

This was not a problem of "feedback". It was plainly obvious, even to the unaided eye (I did verify with a loupe). The Atoma scratch "pattern" is/was totally different than the SP1000. The 1200 Atoma compared to the SP1000 had a gray look, where the SP1000 was giving a more polished shiny scratch pattern appearance, above the apex, on the shoulder. Once the layer of Duct tape was applied to the guide flats, the shiny scratch pattern/appearance of the SP1000 was hitting the apex.

Agreed, SP1000, Green Brick, King stones, are not the best stone for CPM M4. But, it is what I have, and CPM M4 is the highest alloy steel I use, with the exception of Elmax. I suppose the highest grit stone I have that will cut CPM M4 effectively is the 1200 Atoma, actually I think the DMT Diasharp 1200 is a little finer (feels finer to me anyway). That hunting knife is crazy crazy sharp after the Green Brick and K4000. If I made/sharpened higher alloy knives more often, I would consider definitely going with SG stones, or diamond/CBN emulsions/sprays/strops thingamajigs.

Thank you for the compliments on the knife. I do love it.
 
I actually don't use a wicked edge. I use the Razor Edge systems guides. They clamp on the knife blade itself, allowing you to sharpen "free hand" on any stone of your choosing.

This was not a problem of "feedback". It was plainly obvious, even to the unaided eye (I did verify with a loupe). The Atoma scratch "pattern" is/was totally different than the SP1000. The 1200 Atoma compared to the SP1000 had a gray look, where the SP1000 was giving a more polished shiny scratch pattern appearance, above the apex, on the shoulder. Once the layer of Duct tape was applied to the guide flats, the shiny scratch pattern/appearance of the SP1000 was hitting the apex.

Agreed, SP1000, Green Brick, King stones, are not the best stone for CPM M4. But, it is what I have, and CPM M4 is the highest alloy steel I use, with the exception of Elmax. I suppose the highest grit stone I have that will cut CPM M4 effectively is the 1200 Atoma, actually I think the DMT Diasharp 1200 is a little finer (feels finer to me anyway). That hunting knife is crazy crazy sharp after the Green Brick and K4000. If I made/sharpened higher alloy knives more often, I would consider definitely going with SG stones, or diamond/CBN emulsions/sprays/strops thingamajigs.

Thank you for the compliments on the knife. I do love it.

Yea man that thing is a "cutter"

Let me shoot you a PM with some questions.
 
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