Cpm S90v???

nozh2002

nozh2002

BANNED
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
5,736
I am wondering if Kershaw looking to produce any CPM S90V knives in a nearest future? Or may be even CPM S125V. Crucible has pretty good steel - so good, not too many companies can handle them. So Far it was only Microtech and Spyderco who make knives with this steel in limited runs (of course JPHolmes making custom knives with this steel on regular basis).

Is Kershaw going to join this effort to bring best American steels to us?

MAy be composite blades with CPM S125V edge?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I'm really happy with Kershaw's current offerings. Most folks
aren't looking for super high-end steels. With super steels,
usually comes price. In todays market, I wonder how many $200-$500
knives are really sold for use. Most good 'user' knives range
in price from $30 to $80. Even Spyderco's most popular knives
are all less than $100.

I mean really, just how much better is S90V or S125V over my S30V?
Will it do tricks for me? Will it hold an edge forever?
It's not going to cut through cardboard that much better or much
less my sandwich.
When I whip out my blade will someone say "THAT'S S125V! OMG!".
I do not see the need for something I believe to be over-hyped on.

3 Composites with D2 are already currently being produced by Kershaw.
That is a fine steel in itself, that is easily sharpened and maintains an extremely sharp edge.
Not to mention the SG2 versions of the Blur and JYDII.

Is there a particular reason you want knives with such a steel as S125V?

just my thoughts.

mike
 
2brothers said:
I'm really happy with Kershaw's current offerings. Most folks
aren't looking for super high-end steels. With super steels,
usually comes price. In todays market, I wonder how many $200-$500
knives are really sold for use. Most good 'user' knives range
in price from $30 to $80. Even Spyderco's most popular knives
are all less than $100.

I mean really, just how much better is S90V or S125V over my S30V?
Will it do tricks for me? Will it hold an edge forever?
It's not going to cut through cardboard that much better or much
less my sandwich.
When I whip out my blade will someone say "THAT'S S125V! OMG!".
I do not see the need for something I believe to be over-hyped on.

3 Composites with D2 are already currently being produced by Kershaw.
That is a fine steel in itself, that is easily sharpened and maintains an extremely sharp edge.
Not to mention the SG2 versions of the Blur and JYDII.

Is there a particular reason you want knives with such a steel as S125V?

just my thoughts.

mike
Click to expand...

Good Points Mike:thumbup:
 
2brothers said:
I'm really happy with Kershaw's current offerings. Most folks
aren't looking for super high-end steels. With super steels,
usually comes price. In todays market, I wonder how many $200-$500
knives are really sold for use. Most good 'user' knives range
in price from $30 to $80. Even Spyderco's most popular knives
are all less than $100.
Click to expand...

My S90V Military was.

I mean really, just how much better is S90V or S125V over my S30V?
Will it do tricks for me? Will it hold an edge forever?
It's not going to cut through cardboard that much better or much
less my sandwich.
When I whip out my blade will someone say "THAT'S S125V! OMG!".
I do not see the need for something I believe to be over-hyped on.

3 Composites with D2 are already currently being produced by Kershaw.
That is a fine steel in itself, that is easily sharpened and maintains an extremely sharp edge.
Not to mention the SG2 versions of the Blur and JYDII.

Is there a particular reason you want knives with such a steel as S125V?

just my thoughts.

mike
Click to expand...

It's better than S90V, why else?
And if you cut lots of cardboard, the extra edge retention is a valid point.

Also, I agree that Kershaw's composit blade technology puts them in a better position than anyone else to use steel with more extreme levels of wear resistance.
Given that Kershaw has been willing to push the limits with new steel types in the past, hopefully they continue the trend.
 
Joshua J. said:
My S90V Military was.



It's better than S90V, why else?
And if you cut lots of cardboard, the extra edge retention is a valid point.

Also, I agree that Kershaw's composit blade technology puts them in a better position than anyone else to use steel with more extreme levels of wear resistance.
Given that Kershaw has been willing to push the limits with new steel types in the past, hopefully they continue the trend.
Click to expand...

also if cardboard is your thing, try a groove. 13c26 is a great edge retention at a ridiculous bargain, plus the grooves cut down on friction which is great for making cardboard into confetti :)
 
2brothers said:
I'm really happy with Kershaw's current offerings. Most folks
aren't looking for super high-end steels. With super steels,
usually comes price. In todays market, I wonder how many $200-$500
knives are really sold for use. Most good 'user' knives range
in price from $30 to $80. Even Spyderco's most popular knives
are all less than $100.

I mean really, just how much better is S90V or S125V over my S30V?
Will it do tricks for me? Will it hold an edge forever?
It's not going to cut through cardboard that much better or much
less my sandwich.
When I whip out my blade will someone say "THAT'S S125V! OMG!".
I do not see the need for something I believe to be over-hyped on.

3 Composites with D2 are already currently being produced by Kershaw.
That is a fine steel in itself, that is easily sharpened and maintains an extremely sharp edge.
Not to mention the SG2 versions of the Blur and JYDII.

Is there a particular reason you want knives with such a steel as S125V?

just my thoughts.

mike
Click to expand...

This kind of argument kind of universal disagree.

It can be applied to anything - Why do you need nice looking wife if ugly one will do the same job? Why do you need fast car if slow will deliver you to needed point too? Why do you need high quality if low quality will just fine for ME?

It is nothing to discuss - just keep going, we talking about different matter here. I have specific question and do not like to discuss why do I want high quality not poor.
------------------------

I hope Kershaw will answer what is their thoughts on this. I see that kifemanufacturers kind of resisting using new steels and same time also do not want to discuss this matter. I am wondering why?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
This kind of argument kind of universal disagree.

It can be applied to anything - Why do you need nice looking wife if ugly one will do the same job? Why do you need fast car if slow will deliver you to needed point too? Why do you need high quality if low quality will just fine for ME?

It is nothing to discuss - just keep going, we talking about different matter here. I have specific question and do not like to discuss why do I want high quality not poor.
Click to expand...

im not trying to judge, i just wanted to offer an opinion on a specific topic. i can't answer your question, in fact, i agree with you in part. there is always a market, even if its a small one, for premium for the sake of premium. i can't speak as to whether the folks at kershaw deem it financially prudent to produce such specimens.

sorry if we came off as combative, but i think our intentions are to promote discussion here.

Matt
 
Problem is - I ask Kershaw, Thomas or Tim or someone else. But I have topic turned to different and, honestly, pointless discussion. I think knife industry overall not very excited of all this supersteel, which require more effort. Of course they care about making money, making profit etc... But I do not appretiate that in result they did not provide best quality to me and actually deciding what is better for me, like it was in USSR.

Now, I should note that Kershaw moved on top among knife manufacturers only when Thomas start pushing high quality knives with top steels - Kershaw was one of few who brought ZDP-189 on the American market. Excellent steel! As well as thumb lock and ZT line...

At that point Kershaw starts moving up and now leading knife industry. But all this talk about - you do not need high quality - you need what is more profitable for us, just ruining leadership. Look what Benchmade turns into - D2 is what they can offer best! And sometimes ago they was the only company making M2 knives, but now I do not even bother to check what is new in BM line - boring and expensive...

I still like to hear what is Kershaw opinion on those steels.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
i have to say, you are 100% right about kershaw leading the industry so many times. (I want a zdp-189 blade) and they do so many sprint runs that it seems entirely possible. maybe we'll see another super steel on a new ZT?

edit: and i just noticed that your avatar opens and closes its eye. creeps me out now.
 
nozh2002 said:
It is nothing to discuss - just keep going, we talking about different matter here. I have specific question and do not like to discuss why do I want high quality not poor.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

I didn't intend to start an argument. Sorry for that.

I didn't know that S30V and D2 were 'poor' steels.

mike
 
Well sure Vassili, we're always looking to utilize different upper end steels. We have an outstanding relationship with Crucible, and have some solid connections in Japan.

Currently, it seems that CPM-D2, 14C28N, have taken a lot our attention. We also have some lbs. of ZDP that is just sitting around waiting for us. So it's more these steels taking the front burner as of today. S90V, 125V, sure I can see it happening, we've played with them some, who knows what's going to be produced in the future.

As Axl sang "All we need is a little patience"
 
Thanks Thomas.
It's not very common to see someone in management of a big company keep an uplifting view on matters like this.

I will be eagerly awaiting both 14C28N and whatever else you come up with.
(more ZDP-189 is always a good thing too)
 
2brothers said:
I mean really, just how much better is S90V or S125V over my S30V?
Click to expand...
2brothers said:
I do not see the need for something I believe to be over-hyped on.
Click to expand...
Mike,

Did you think S30V was over-hyped? When S30V was released S60V, 154CM and ATS-34 were the standards. Was 154CM over-hyped compared to 440C? Is CPM D2 over-hyped compared to D2?

Some people are comfortable with the status quo. Others like Vassili push for the next improvement.

How about a real world blade steel comparison? Every few years we make a large quantity of salsa. Our last batch was 35 gallons. All the tomatoes are diced by hand. I've found tomatoes to be a good test medium. High end stainless steels like S30V, 154CM, ATS-34, S60V, VG-10 & BG-42 all would average about 10-12 cups of tomatoes before they would start to drag. Once a knife starts to drag I would resharpen and start dicing & counting again. S90V cut a substantially larger quantity. After 36 cups it was still going strong and did not need resharpening. The knife was made by Phil Wilson. I was so impressed we've since picked up three more S90V knives from Phil.

The S90V did not do any tricks and the edge did eventually get dull when I performed other testing. But it did hold an edge measurably longer than S30V. Based on my testing I do not think S90V is over-hyped. We need to make more salsa so I can test 13C26, CPM-D2, SG2 and S125V. :D

I remember a few Kershaw "Firsts":
- Assisted Opener
- Polished G10 Scales
- Crucible CPM Steels
- SG2 Steel
- Sculpted Titanium Scales
- Vault Lock
- Stud Lock
- Hidden Folder Stop Pin
- MIM Blade
- Composite Blade
Some of the above listed items were available in custom knives but Kershaw was the first to make them available in a production factory knives. I'm sure this trend will continue in the future. We need to be patient and let Kershaw do what they do best.

Kudos to Kershaw for always pushing the envelope. :thumbup:
 
Thomas W said:
Well sure Vassili, we're always looking to utilize different upper end steels. We have an outstanding relationship with Crucible, and have some solid connections in Japan.

Currently, it seems that CPM-D2, 14C28N, have taken a lot our attention. We also have some lbs. of ZDP that is just sitting around waiting for us. So it's more these steels taking the front burner as of today. S90V, 125V, sure I can see it happening, we've played with them some, who knows what's going to be produced in the future.

As Axl sang "All we need is a little patience"
Click to expand...

Nice to hear! What is your observation on those steel? Do you think the problem with grinding is so big that it may jeopardize production? I know that J.P.Holmes and Phill Willson working with it a lot may be they know some tricks?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Side note on CPM S30V

CPM S30V is good - I did not like it because this is example when knive industry push replacement of better steel CPM S60V presenting CPM S30V as best in my as a customer interest. CPM S60V is better then CPM S30V and crucible intended to replace it with CPM S90V not CPM S30V.

My tests http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Manila-Rope-Results.html shows that CPM S60V cuts better. This is only my problem with CPM S30V - it is a downgrade in cutting ability, better to grind, but for the same price as CPM S60V. But it outcut other steel and results shows it. Now industry trying to replace even CPM S30V with D2 which is again "better for customers".

In result CPM S90V place was taken over by Japanese ZDP189 and it make it looks like American metallurgists can not offer any better, while they had CPM S90V for quite a while (it was CPM 420V).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Vassili.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top