CQB Talk

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Greg Walker

Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
590
With Andy and ATC back in full force (witness the Variation Series) it would be both fun and educational to open up a thread dedicated to CQB training with ATC 'hawks in specific.

Peter LaGana designed and had made the ATC Tomahawk expressly for close quarters combat. Today that 'hawk and the incredible variations coming from LaGana's chosen successor, Andy Prisco, is back in full force and demanding of some straight forward tactical talk and exchanges of information, opinion, observations, and suggestions.

With as many ATC modern 'hawks that are now not only out there but in the fray (Global War on Terrorism) there should be plenty of feedback available.

Who knows, we might even encourage Andy to rebirth ATC's once jammin' Tomahawk Combatives Program AND stimulate his creative juices where the Variation Series is already overflowing:eek:

Greg Walker, Modern Farang Mu Sul
Senior Instructor - STK Program
www.farangmusul.com

PS: Andy - the RR is outta sight:D Got it with me everywhere.
 
This is an exciting topic and I'm glad you started it Greg.

I encourage folks to begin posting their thoughts on this subject and look forward to seeing what develops. Great idea.

PS...glad you like the RR...it was as rewarding for me to make it for you.

MAJ Robert Rogers, Standing Order #19
"Let the enemy come till he's almost close enough to touch, then let him have it and jump out and finish him up with your hatchet."
 
Okay, Andy, let's kick it off with the advantages of the 19" haft on the RR and why ATC is going to this length handle-wise?

GW
 
Good one...

There are a few reasons for this change.

First, from a solely business standpoint, I cannot tell you how many customers over the years have simply asked for a longer handle on the RR Spike. Typically, the request is within this kind of context... "...can I get a Minuteman or Light Infantry size handle on an RR Spike?" Our thinking now is that the customer can simply saw the handle to the length they ultimately want, should they wish too. At 16", there's no Rogaine that works for hickory! ;)

Secondly, 19" handles represent the most popular length handle in a Tomahawk, both yesterday and today. I believe the reasons are leverage and reach.

The stroke and cutting power of the RR Spike is greatly enhanced by those three little inches. While the weight is distributed more toward the head as a result, the kinetic energy gains are totally "felt" in a swing or a chop. This means, in my view, slower recovery as well for continued movement. However, whether it be length or power, those three added inches can mean the difference between controlling an opponent's weapon arm safely or ending the fight definitively with a medium-hard blow...whereas if all other things were equal, the 16" handle may not have done the same job.

As in all things, it's give and take. I feel these two reasons were more than enough to institute the change. We expect our customers will like it. ;)
 
Over the years I've found that protection of the tomahawk's head (safety and security) + carry of the tomahawk as a CQB weapon is a tough nut to crack.

ATC offers several different sheath and carry systems, and certainly one can have a custom scabbard or system made, as well.

The trick is handle length and where do you carry with the handle in a position where it does not impede or interfere with either movement or other equipment?

And how to draw safetly, swiftly, and without cutting or catching while doing so (yourself or your equipment)?

I now lean toward a an across the chest sling attached to either a leather or Kydex canoe style scabbard. This way you just sling the 'hawk over your clothing (or under a jacket or vest) and over your load bearing gear and/or body armor. The canoe style scabbard allows you to unsnap and lift up/out. Fast, secure, and protected. The handle hangs to the side and is most often out of the way and does not impede movement.

I like the traditional haft-stuck-through-a-belt carry, too. The 'hawk is right there when you need it and out of the way. The trick here is having a standard axe blade rig built that slips over the edge and secures the spike so you don't cut or poke yourself while carrying in this manner. Slip it on, slip it off. Gotta be creative.

GW
 
Rob at Survival Sheath Systems has developed a shoulder carry system for the Hawk', which works well except for those who carry their handgun in the same place. Right-handed folks wear the Hawk under the left arm, edge back, and in most cases, a knife under the right arm. The handles of both are vertical at the side.

We have a customer who survived the 9-11 attack at the WTC. Immediatley afterward, he ordered such a shoulder rig for his VTAC and off-hand knife. Every day, he carried his VTAC well concealed, and easily deployable...moving right from the sheath into a draw stroke, edge up...Filipino Angle #9.

I also favor the canoe style baldric sheath, as well as the "belt-tuck" method for quick on/off a la' Benjamin Martin. The spike is indeed the rub there, but for a Minuteman or hammer-poll VT Variant, the carry is comfortable.

The well known climber, Trigger Twigg, carries a VTAC and Next Generation K-Bar in an SSS rig...but he added a twist. As a right handed man, Trigger carries his VTAC under his RIGHT arm, edge forward, and under the left, his K-Bar, edge back, for left hand reverse grip draw. He just pops the VTAC edge forward right out of the sheath. Trigger likes to throw, so he developed a draw stroke out of the sheath, up over his head, and WHAMMO...Airborne Steel.
 
Have one of Rob's shoulder rigs set up for NG KA-BAR and VT. Carries as Andy described and is very secure on the draw. Great rig!

GW
 
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