CQC6

J

jbravo

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 16, 1999
Messages
1,461
c6.jpg


NO LONGER ON THE MARKET!

[This message has been edited by jbravo (edited 10-03-2000).]
 
Isn't this the same one that was being sold a couple of weeks ago? Same Seller
 
Yes it appears to be the same one - do you think it will sell this time?

Regards,

Ed
 
The bids have started rolling in.
smile.gif


Every Emerson fan should have one!

John

[This message has been edited by John Hollister (edited 09-29-2000).]
 
It does not show up when I try searching on ebay.

I am very curious as to how this will play out. Are we reaching the saturation point for the SPECWAR CQC-6 market? They do seems to be rather plentiful as of late.

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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
As far as I know Ernie does these things in batches of all the same knives. Its part of the reason for orders getting filled out of invoice order. Obviously, a large group of 6's has gotten done and delivered, and as I have stated in previous posts, alot of people were just out for the money...They waited a couple years for a knife, took delivery, and in thirty seconds they are going to try to triple their money. I am glad Ernie went into semi retirement so the orders can get caught up and the complaining can stop. Hopefully in the future, if Ernie gets caught up, he'll only take fully paid orders for knives up front, and I think this will limit things to a reasonable level. Its my opinion that the prices are going to be flexing a lot as the orders get filled. I have noticed that most of the usual suspects are starting to strive for older, rarer pieces, rather than the more prevelent folders and recently made customs.

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He who advances is sure of heaven-He who retreats of eternal damnation.
 
True enough. 2/3's of my collection are EMERSON logo customs.

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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
ECON 101 or Supply & Demand. As the market becomes saturated, the prices will fall. But I do not think that Emerson can produce enough customs for even the price of the CQC-6 to fall much. If he provides for his Custom/Production line, that should take the pressure off the Customs and I think a lot of custom orders will not be filled as people opt to readily procure a Custom/Production and wait for years for thier knife. It is really sad that many people only see it as an opportunity to make money on the sale of a custom that they just recieved from Emerson. This is what bothers the makers and drives thier prices up at the shows. that is why I will not do business with resellers whoase only goal is to make a dollar. I could afford the inflated prices but is goes against my ethics and I like doing business directly with the makers!
 
First let me say that I do not have any custom EMERSONs to sell. My question is why should someone who does have one for sale sell it for less than market price? I get the distinct impression that this is being looked at as wrong somehow. I wolud be very happy if I owned these knives and saw there value increasing the way EMERSONs have. I also would not have any problem selling it for as much as I could get for it. No matter what my reason for selling it were. What reason could there be to do anything different. If I were to sell it for less than market value couldn't the next owner sell it at market value and make the profit that I sould have? Not that, that would be wrong either.
I feel that if someone had the forsight to order a knife or knives from any maker that were to increase in value while waiting to take delivery that they would be entitled to any profit that could be had. Isn't that what free enterprise is all about?


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Later, Jim
 
I'm the seller in question on this particular knife. I bought it in the secondary market for a figure north of $1,000, not that the purchase price should matter in the ethics of selling.

However, some above have questions that motivation. If you want to get critical of ethics and behaviors in this regard, I think people here should look closer to the source. Where are the ethics in promising delivery of a knife upon receipt of a deposit, and then not doing so? Or in repeatedly assuring such a customer over the course of years that the delivery will be soon, only to make excuses and not deliver? Or to call that customer and castigate him for bringing these things up on the forums? Or to produce a knife without giving public credit to the obvious designer? Or to produce "custom" knives that need suspect explanations to explain away their close resembalance to production knives and their markings?

This is the Emerson Knife Forum. If anyone thinks its appropriate to discuss ethics here, I think the pricing of custom knives on the secondary market, where supply and demand are the only arbiters, is pretty far down on our list of things to contemplate.

Sorry for the rant, but whether a 6 sells for Ernie's $525 or ebay's $1,200 seems like pretty minor league in this context.
 
Hey Bud, want to talk ethics? How about a guy who takes 7 or 8 years worth of orders, then takes a year or two to get his production company running instead of working on said orders.People getting their orders 3,4, or 5 years after they were promised? Why talk about people getting them only to make money without talking about the maker not fulfilling obligations so he could make money quicker with production knives? It's all about money. Otherwise why start a production company when you've got more orders than you can handle?
I've spoken to Ernie at a few shows and he is a really nice guy but I don't have to agree with his business ethics. If he delivered knives close to on-time there wouldn't be any reason for people to pay $1200+ for them.And if someone is willing to pay the price, what is unethical about making
profit on your investment?

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Dave (Phil.4:13)
I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Strengthens Me
Here's Lifter: www.profitness.com/Profiles/profileDaveAbramson
 
I'm in agreement with jbravo and lifter. If someone is willing to pay $1200 for a CQC6 or $1800 for a CQC5, so what?!?! Someone who sells a custom Emerson for less than $1000 these days would probably be laughed at and considered a fool by those "in the know". Anyone who owns a custom Emerson should be thrilled to death that their knives have appreciated so much in the last 5 years. That doesn't mean that I'd sell mine if i had one, but hey, if I had a few -6's in my Emerson inventory, I'd certainly sell it for all I could get and buy a model I didn't have. That makes sense doesn't it?

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"They sicken of the calm, who know the storm."
RFrost5746@excite.com

My Knives
 
In reference to the concerns of jbravo and others on this forum we would like to clarify our situation. We fully understand the frustration of long waiting customers with orders on the books. Mr. Emerson has stated here and in many other public forums, that he is guilty as charged.
He has also stated that he is willing to suffer the consequences of his situation, including the anger, frustrations, and arrows from those customers. He always stands fully ready to accept his responsibility and take his lumps for those who wish to vent those frustrations. However, it should be known that jbravo has received several knives from Mr. Emerson over the past few years and this knife is only the last one that he has on order. This is not the case of a customer waiting solely for his only knife from Emerson. I’m sure jbravo will elucidate on this fact, honestly.
We have told jbravo several times now what our situation is, and we will state it once again. The tasks of starting, setting up, and running a major manufacturing facility do not need to be described. We have explained that this was in part responsible for the long delays. It was Mr. Emerson’s call and he made it. In the long run it has proven a wise decision and sparked a tremendous boom for the entire cutlery industry overall. Once the company was fully staffed and running, Mr. Emerson got back to building the handmade knives at a rate of approx. 30 –35 every 6 weeks. Each batch that he makes is one model; say CQC-5’s one month, CQC-8’s the next month, etc. This is the only way we could begin to attack the back orders that we have. We have discussed this with the Guild and they agree that it is the best way (being knife makers) to addressing the orders with any degree of order and efficiency. For the customers whose frustrations have peaked, we have always offered a full refund on their orders and you must also be aware that this is the reason that Mr. Emerson retired from taking any more custom knife orders last July.
We have told jbravo that his order will be ready when that model is the batch being built and he has always seemed to understand. What we are doing is our best effort to get the knives done and most of the customers agree that the current way we are doing it is late but nonetheless gets the knives finished. Once again, this is our best effort at filling the orders and the general consensus is that it is a working solution to the back orders that we have.

Thank you,

Emerson Knives


P.S. Please explain what knife does not get credit for the obvious designer. This one puzzles us.
 
Inasmuch as "Emerson Knives" has addressed me personally in the above post, I feel it only proper to state my real name, Seth Rosen, rather than seem anonymous. I also should acknowledge that I've ordered three knives directly from Ernie - a Viper in June of 1995 (the bone of contention here) and two ES1s in November 1996. (The ES1s were delivered, almost a year apart within two years of ordering them). That's it: ordered three knives, got two so far. In and of itself, no reason to complain, that's for sure!

The rest of the story, which until now I've felt should be kept private, is: the Viper was promised within "6 to 8 months" by the Emersons in June '95; was again promised for delivery "by summer's end" in 1997; was again promised by "year's end" in '97; was then promised in summer of '98 " by September"; subsequently promised for delivery before March '99, and also "absolutely before [the order]is four year's old", meaning June '99. Each of these promises were spoken to me by Ernie personally or by telephone, and were in the context of monthly calls to check the status of the order. They were also in the context of great personal warmth and congeniality, and in each case I accepted his excuses pleasantly, operating under the assumption that my order would get filled in its turn.

All that changed in March of 2000, when I learned that orders placed after 6/95 for some contemporaneous models were being filled ahead of mine. I called to confirm it with Ernie, emailed to confirm it, wrote to him to confirm it - all without reply. Then I posted here to question and critize such a practice, and did get a call back from Ernie. Forty five minutes of apologia, excuses, and harsh critism later, only two things were resolved in what was a very confrontational phone call: 1, that we agreed to disagree on this practice, and 2, "you'll have your knife by summer's end". Direct quote. Nor has he returned any of my monthly calls since.

There is alot more to this that I don't think needs airing in public, and I invite Ernie to email or call me at his leisure. Or the person who posted the reply can call/email, rather than keeping this type of discussion in public. Especially references to the Guild, for heaven's sake! And, taking "responsibility" includes abiding by these promises, not merely mouthing a public mea culpa while continuing the activity, particularly while cast in the absurd shadow of "general consensus".

In any event, I look forward to the eventual delivery (here again publicly confirmed) of the Viper when it is made.

I apologize for such a lengthy post to my now long-suffering fellow Suspects.
 
Seth,

I hope some lucky person becomes the proud owner of the CQC6. It is unfortunate when a maker runs into problems regarding delivery. People shouldn't make promises they can't keep, but on the other hand, people want other people to be happy, so the intentions may not be bad. Maybe one way to console oneself is to believe that the maker doesn't want to rush his or her work so that they may deliver a truly quality product. As far as the prices go, hey, it's a free market and like other have said, demand dictates the prices (except if you are B. Gates). What about the Loveless that goes for $10,000? Or the Yoshihara that goes for $50,000? One maker that has been taking a lot of flak for his prices is Hartsfield. But again, if it is worth it to you it is worth it to you, and maybe not to another.
 
With few exceptions most collectability aspect of any item that is sought after by collectors far outweighs the intrinsic value of the item.

With knives it is usually the name that draws people to a particular knife. As with the Emerson, Loveless, Hartsfield and Moran knives. There are much better quality knives made with much better materials that will perform much better. Usually at substantially less prices.

That said, the collectors of these knives are not in search for the best. They are in search of the name and enjoyment of owning one of these knives.

When it is all said and done, that is what custom knife collecting is about.

So people will pay what people pay. That is their perogative. As someone wrote, it is the free enterprise system.

As for ethics and integrity of Emerson Knives. I think blatant misrepresentation of the facts speaks for it's self.

One more thing, as Emerson is now a voting member of the Guild. Feel free to contact Al Pendray, the president of the Guild. He and the board of directors get involved with their membership in areas such as makers not meeting their quoted delivery times.

The only reason custom knife makers don't meet their delivery times, is because customers let them!



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Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur

http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
...And now for something completely different. Is the CQC-6 posted above a single bevel or double bevel edge?

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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
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