crappy journalism strikes again

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Oct 9, 2003
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10087890/

Check this out: an articlae about the 18 year old who killed his 14 yr old girlfriends parents.
The article headline, in RED, "
54 guns found in home of Pa. murder suspect

The article goes on to say that they dont know if the guns belonged to the 18 yr old or his father.

They just disgust me. A gun collection is not a crime nor does it indicate a criminal proclivity. The newspapers sure want you to think that, though, dont they....

Hey I have a gun collection. I also have many knives.

Maybe they should write an article about me with a red title...
 
People see me coming out of my house with long bows, animal skin quivers full of brightly colored arrows and even the occasional Kukuuri ,hawk , spear or staff . I am much more discreet with firearms They have learned to tolerate this oddity in their sofa, bag of chips and television world ..
My point to this is because we have forgotten where our food comes from and conveniently forget that peace officers carry things that go bang to protect the general publics right to bellyache when a criminal has their hair mussed by the police . Even people who have taken handgun safety courses and should know more than what end points where seem sadly lacking in any real world education . Of course these are all generalisations on my part . There are peole who get it. They are just sadly getting to be a rare breed . I don,t think it comes down to firearm or knife collections . It boils down to self respect .
 
Crappy angle on the story here. If he had used multiple guns or even taken off with multiple guns, then I could see the relevance of it.

A better story would have been to question whether socialization is impaired or there is a risk of socialization being impaired by home schooling. I'm not saying it is or isn't, but I think it would have had more relevance as a topic and made for a better article with the ability to gather expert opinions about it.

Then you get follow up features by people advising you on things to do to improve your home schooling program or to avoid the possibility of isolation or a lack of socialization, etc. If the article reveals a problem or potential problem, you can address it with positive suggestions.

It's a much better tack than GUNS! GUNS! GUNS! BAD! BAD! BAD!

If he'd stabbed them, I wonder if we'd have seen:

134 knives found in home of Pa. murder suspect
Teen accused of killing girlfriend’s parents is being held without bail
The Associated Press
Updated: 6:28 p.m. ET Nov. 17, 2005

LITITZ, Pa. - Police seized 134 knives from the home of an 18-year-old man charged with killing his girlfriend’s parents and fleeing the state with her, according to court documents filed Thursday.

Warwick Township police removed the collection of filet knives, steak knives, butcher knives and other cutlery Sunday from the home where suspect David Ludwig lived with his parents. The search occurred as police were still trying to find him and 14-year-old Kara Beth Borden.

Ludwig was being held without bail on murder and kidnapping charges after being flown back to Pennsylvania on Tuesday from Indiana, where police captured him following a chase.

Police allege Ludwig stabbed Michael and Cathryn Borden on Sunday at their home in Lititz following an argument over his relationship with Kara. The two had been dating, apparently secretly, according to friends and witnesses.

Ludwig was arrested Monday after crashing his parents’ car into a tree in Belleville, Ind., about 600 miles from the murder scene, during a police chase. Neither Ludwig nor the girl, who has not been charged, was injured in the crash.

Investigators have said they are treating Kara Borden as a victim but that the investigation is continuing.

Ludwig’s parents, Gregory and Jane Ludwig, issued a statement Wednesday expressing their sorrow over the slayings but have not spoken publicly. They have not returned multiple phone messages seeking comment.

It was unclear whether the confiscated weapons belonged to Ludwig or his parents.

Teen liked to eat


David Ludwig apparently was an avid eater and posted 20 pictures labeled “Thanksgiving 2004” on a Web site that included an image of him posing with freshly carved turkey.

Neither of Ludwig’s parents is registered as a restaurateur or chef, according to the licensing department of the state Department of Health.

Police were not immediately available Thursday to comment on the search. Lancaster County District Attorney Donald Totaro declined to comment, and attorneys for Ludwig did not immediately return telephone calls seeking comment.

The Bordens were each stabbed once in the head with what authorities said was probably a large butcher knife.

Mike Borden worked for a printing company, and his children were home-schooled, said neighbor Tod Sherman. Sherman said the family knew Ludwig through a home-schooling network.

Kara’s 13-year-old sister, Katelyn, told investigators her parents were stabbed after they argued with Ludwig for about an hour, according to court papers.
 
But wait, theres no such thing as anti-gun media bias!:mad: :barf:
the modern media disgusts me.
 
As the father of a three year old girl I'm going to ask a question here that is glaring at me. Please don't get offended, I'm not trying to make anyone mad or say anyone deserves what happened to those parents. Here goes:

Why was a 14 year old girl out on a date by herself with an 18 year old guy? Why were her parents unaware they were sexually active? Why when there was so much evidence of their liason were the parents unaware? If they were aware why did they allow this relationship to happen?

OK, sorry if those are not proper questions to ask at this time. I just think to blame the guns in this situation is bad reasoning. What if he'd have done it with a baseball bat. Are baseball fans everywhere to blame? I'm not trying to say its all the parents fault, but I wasn't allowed to date at 14 and I'm a male. I think today people are too soft on their kids. It winds up hurting the kids. Think of how messed up this girl is right now. I feel for her. How does she face her siblings and the rest of her family?

Andy
 
aproy1101 said:
As the father of a three year old girl I'm going to ask a question here that is glaring at me. Please don't get offended, I'm not trying to make anyone mad or say anyone deserves what happened to those parents. Here goes:

Why was a 14 year old girl out on a date by herself with an 18 year old guy? Why were her parents unaware they were sexually active? Why when there was so much evidence of their liason were the parents unaware? If they were aware why did they allow this relationship to happen?

OK, sorry if those are not proper questions to ask at this time. I just think to blame the guns in this situation is bad reasoning. What if he'd have done it with a baseball bat. Are baseball fans everywhere to blame? I'm not trying to say its all the parents fault, but I wasn't allowed to date at 14 and I'm a male. I think today people are too soft on their kids. It winds up hurting the kids. Think of how messed up this girl is right now. I feel for her. How does she face her siblings and the rest of her family?

Andy

I've discussed this case with my 15 year old daughter.

Here's some quotes from the article.

...Police allege Ludwig shot Michael and Cathryn Borden on Sunday at their home in Lititz following an argument over his relationship with Kara. The two had been dating, apparently secretly, according to friends and witnesses...

...Kara’s 13-year-old sister, Katelyn, told investigators her parents were shot after they argued with Ludwig for about an hour, according to court papers.

It seems that this girl was playing two roles. She was a child being raised by her parents. She was also the lover and companion of an adult man. It seems that the desires of the parents to protect and raise and the desires of her lover would inevitably come into conflict.

I'm not sure it's a matter of being too soft on children. The dating was "secret" and apparently the parents were upset when they found out. Trying to control a young person approaching adulthood is often counterproductive. The young person is establishing an identity and part of that process often involves rebellion against perceived attempts at control. I think talking to them about adult relationships and keeping clear lines of communication is more important than control.

The parent's job, in my view, is to help their children to grow and develop. In this case, the parents will no longer be filling that role.

It's too bad that the young girl did not have an understanding of where her path could lead. It may be, that if she could do things over, she would make different choices. Often the price of wisdom is high.

I like to take the opportunity to discuss things like this with my daughter. Things like the psychological ramifications of sexual activity. Or the dangers of someone trying to addict another to drugs in order to exploit them. I don't know if the discussions will lead to wisdom for her. I can only try my best to guide and hope.
 
Well I don't know the whole story, but from what I've seen, it was a completely secret affair. The girl would sneak out and the parents did not know about it until the guy kept her out all night and she came in the next morning.

If you don't think that can happen then I wonder how it can be prevented. ( I also have a 3 year old girl ). Other than raising with values, I don't see how you can prevent a girl from sneaking out her window when everyone is asleep. I know my sister did it often and my parents were, while not strict, informed and involved in her life. They didn't have a clue. Do we need to patrol the grounds at night, starting at about age 13.
 
I think you guys are right. Keeping the lines of communication open, instilling values, and taking an interested active role in a kids life are the best ways. I'm not talking about being a control freak parent. My parents would have known what was going on though. They didn't allow me to date that young. When I went out they knew where I was, what adults would be there, etc.

However, the computer is a dangerous tool that predators use to collect victims all the time. As a parent I believe it is my responsibility to monitor both cell phone and PC usage. Also I think its important to understand the PC well enough to protect your teens from predators if they will be allowed to have a computer.

Also this kid has siblings including an older brother. I think that a close nit family would have known. I watched out for my sister, I knew who she dated and kept tabs on the people she hung out with. It never came up, but I was prepared to goto my parents if she was getting into trouble. She knew this too. I don't blame the brother either, but I think its a pretty big thing to slip through the cracks. Very unfortunate. As you say the price of wisdom is high, and I'm sure she feels terrible now. Hindsight is 2020.

Andy
 
I live in PA. In the same general area as this incident, within an hour's drive. This case is huge in the media here. It does appear to have been a secret affair, to the parents at least, their friends all knew about it. It does appear that the motive was the parents finding out and calling it off. The thing that bothers me most is the focusing on that the murderer was a hunter, with a large gun collection. It bothers me even more that police confiscated the gun collection. He used one gun, not the whole collection. I have to wonder if they had the right to confiscate the entire collection. The murders where done with a .40 cal pistol. Why confiscate rifles, shotguns and whatever? Especially when ownership of the guns, where they his or his father's, was in question. I saw this article in my local paper and it incensed me. There is no law in PA about the number of guns one can have. One can own pistols without a licence, you only need a license to carry. You do not need to be a registered collector or any such nonsense. The article is inflammatory anti-gun propoganda. The number of guns owned is irrelevant to this case. One gun was used in the crimes.
 
If the other firearms were legally obtained by the owner the should be returned. They have no connection to the case.
Sounds like the parents were doing their best and the kid snuck out on them.
You can't keep them locked in a cage...tho it does have it's appeal.:p
I agree that bias in the media is rampant. Of course you can write a letter to the editor pointing this out...they might even print it.:D
 
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