Creating a knife without heat treatment?

J

jmvicuna

Joined
May 10, 2010
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6
Hi everyone,

I've been reading this forum for a long time, and have been reading on internet and from books about knifemaking.

I really want to make my own knives, but my problem is that I can't do a heat treatment (I don't have the equipment, and near my area there isn't any place to pay for it), so my question is, Can I make a good knife without a heat treatment? If so, which steel would be preferable to use? Or, as I don't have access to heat treatment I should just leave my idea of knifemaker? :(

I hope that someone can help me with this :D
 
Make a good knife, not really. When the steel isn't hardened it's still hard but not to the potential it would have if heat treated. So chances are you won't have anything that will hold much of an edge. Start with a hardened steel and you'll pull your hair out trying to do just about anything to it.

There are a couple of places you can send it out to be treated if you don't have the availability to do so. If you have access to a post office or UPS you can get it treated. Most likely it'll run you somewhere around $20 give or take a few bucks in either direction.
 
I'm from Chile, and there isn't any place (as far as I know) where I can make the HT.

Well, it seems that if I want to make a good knife (or try to do it :p ) I'll need to make a forge....

So, in the end, what makes a good knife is a good heat treatment? (beside all the other work)
 
There is a lot that goes into a "good" knife. However if you want the steel it's made from to perform at it's best potential then it needs to be hardened and tempered to what that specific steel calls for. If you want basically the easiest steel to work with that will still make a very well performing knife your best bet is likely 1084.
 
jmvicuna said:
Hi everyone,

I've been reading this forum for a long time, and have been reading on internet and from books about knifemaking.

I really want to make my own knives, but my problem is that I can't do a heat treatment (I don't have the equipment, and near my area there isn't any place to pay for it), so my question is, Can I make a good knife without a heat treatment? If so, which steel would be preferable to use? Or, as I don't have access to heat treatment I should just leave my idea of knifemaker? :(

I hope that someone can help me with this :D
Click to expand...

You don't have coals, a BBQ a kitchen oven and some oil?:confused:

With a lot of basic carbons steels you can get quite a decent heat treat of of just those materials.
 
Yeah..coming up with a way to heat treat simple steels isn't really that hard but if you still want to know if one can be made without heattreatment then the answer is yes.

Don't expect it to be even near what known steels can achieve but you can go with straight lawnmower blades (don't use the mulching blades) as these are already hardened so it'll only need tempering. It'll also be hell to work with as carbide bits are a absolute requirement for drilling through these and it would take forever to cut and grind the profile of a narrow tang. (hacksaws or bandsaws won't cut this..you'll need abrasive cutoff disks and a angle grinder which means straight cuts only).

You'll be much better off just making something to heat treat them with then working with the above.
 
most forges are infantly simple to build, and if you can find some L6 steel it will air harden to a very respectable 61rc once criticale temp is reached but make sure every thing u want to do to the blade is done before you heat it(drill holes ,filing,ect.) because it is a mother bear to aneal soft enough to work once hardend (l6 can be found in most indusrial saw mill blades,head saws,band saws ect.)good luck.
 
Buy a file, temper it down the way it is in your kitchen oven 400-450, use an angle grinder to profile and rough shape the bevels being careful not to overheat, and use a paracord wrap on the handle cause you may or may not have access to carbide spade bits and a drill press. Leaving the file marks on the ricasso area gives the knife character, so do not beat yourself up trying to get rid of the teeth.

BTW I have never tried this, just heard it mentioned in the forum before.
 
gixxer said:
Buy a file, temper it down the way it is in your kitchen oven 400-450, use an angle grinder to profile and rough shape the bevels being careful not to overheat, and use a paracord wrap on the handle cause you may or may not have access to carbide spade bits and a drill press. Leaving the file marks on the ricasso area gives the knife character, so do not beat yourself up trying to get rid of the teeth.

BTW I have never tried this, just heard it mentioned in the forum before.
Click to expand...

I would be extremely careful about using an angle grinder to rough out anything. Those things will burn the temper out very quickly.

I would get some carbon steel (1080, 1095) and rough out 10-12 knives. Then choose the ones you like best and finish them up. Then send out for a heat treat. Postage might set you back $60-$100 (I'm guessing high) but you'll get 3-4 knives out of it.
 
From my experience in Chile (16 years ago), the biggest problem you'll have is paying to get your items back through customs. A hommade propane forge should be a fairly simple solution for you. Where do you live in Chile? If you are near Santiago, you could probably find somewhere that has the capability of heat treating for you. Don't give up on the idea of making knives! I'd love to see a hand made corvo!
 
Thanks a lot guys for all your answers.

Now I'm very motivate to use my coal grill as a forge.

I have some steel planks, so I will make the design, and then go for the heat treatment.

When I'm ready for the HT, I will post more asking about it. :D

Thanks averyone!


PS: About the Corvo, I would love to make one, but that will be like in 20 more knives :p
 
Easy if you can find the right material.

I've been using worn out industrial power hacksaw blades.
Mine are M42 tool steel that is Q&T to a RC58. Badazz stuff.

All cutting has to be done with a grinder or cutoff wheel (don't even consider a band saw) and you have to go slow to avoid heating it up (and destroying the HT) but the results are awesome.
 
roxtar said:
Easy if you can find the right material.

I've been using worn out industrial power hacksaw blades.
Mine are M42 tool steel that is Q&T to a RC58. Badazz stuff.

All cutting has to be done with a grinder or cutoff wheel (don't even consider a band saw) and you have to go slow to avoid heating it up (and destroying the HT) but the results are awesome.
Click to expand...

Yep!

My Dad used to make blades that way. Since the steel is already hardened, you just have to be careful not to overheat it during stock reduction. He used to grind small grooves in it and snap it along the grooves to get the basic blade blank, then just clean up the profile and slowly work the edge down.
 
Tai Goo said:
Yep!

My Dad used to make blades that way. Since the steel is already hardened, you just have to be careful not to overheat it during stock reduction. He used to grind small grooves in it and snap it along the grooves to get the basic blade blank, then just clean up the profile and slowly work the edge down.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
I love this material.
Very hard but yet, even after grinding it 3/4 through with a cutoff wheel, I still have to bend it close to 90* to get it to snap.
 
I use a kiridashi my Dad made from power hacksaw blade. It's over 20 years old and still cuts great!

Aside from that, folks forged and work hardened iron, bronze and copper blades for a very long time... they did alright!… made some wicked lethal weapons and tools that way, and got us where we are today.

It’s really just history,... and just depends what you mean by a “good knife“?
 
The best edge holding knives I've ever seen were made from fully hardened (no soft spine) power hacksaw blades. The beauty of high speed steel is that its downright difficult to soften the blade while grinding unless you are trying to do it. Standard industrial heat treatment uses the secondary hardening peak, which is about 900 to 1000 degrees F. Turning it blue while grinding doesn't do anything to the heat treatment. I still grind bare handed, so I can only grind for so long without having to stop, but my toughest, longest edge holder is made from an M2 hacksaw blade.
 
You want Starret Red Stripes not blue or green stripes as they are Bi metals... do a google search for them, they're not hard to come by. Also something else I've found very intresting is the ease of etching designs into the blade with nothing more than an extra fine sharpie pen and a bath of vinegar. (clean the blade with alcohol first!) here's a few early examples I did for my duaghter and a neighbors boy. you can use the same method on O1, I've found just about any steel with a lil tungston (W) in the mix will allow it.

n625615241_1729008_5515.jpg
 
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