CRK Golden Age

[protodoc]

Times change, companies come and go, and the knife world is in flux.

With all that is going on, I find it truly remarkable that Chris Reeve is celebrating a quarter of a century of production of the Sebenza knife.
It is without a doubt my favorite production knife and despite owning some very respectable custom folders I keep coming back to Sebenzas for my every day carry.

However, I am left wondering if things are still moving in the right direction. Is the best yet to come, or is the Golden Age of CRK in the past?
My dearest folder remains my large 2001 LE Redwood Burl Sebenza. Maybe it is just sentimentality that keeps drawing me back to it but I like everything about this knife.

People have debated endlessly about the changes in steel CRK has implemented over time but it seems fair to say that at best the changes reflect a lateral move rather than a significant improvement and I have seen some comments that have been less kind. My personal favorite Sebenza steel remains BG42, long gone from production.

The limited edition knives are gone now. The simplicity and ingenuity of the bushing pivot seems to be a thing of the past with the new style Sebenza. The Umfaan is gone and was never replaced. I liked the old one piece survival knives better than the military style replacements. The Mnandi has been a nice addition as a Gentleman's knife but the Umnumzaan added nothing that the large Sebenza couldn't do and I frankly don't understand the Ti-Lock at all.

I hope that Chris will prove me wrong and will continue to produce outstanding products for many years to come.
Maybe in the end the strongest feature of the Sebenza also ends up being its worst curse: Perfection is hard to improve.

 

[rolexkid]

you have hit the nail on the head! i'm glad someone said what i've wanted too....

 

[RiverRat84]

Maybe CRK is just focusing on moving forward? It would be easy to stick with the same model, no changes, same old same old 10 years, 20 years, 30 years on end.

I understand your viewpoint, but maybe this should be taken as a time of excitement? They've made alot of changes with the Sebenza 25, changes I'm looking forward to experiencing. I love the 21, but that's not preventing me from wanting to get my hands on a 25:thumbup:

It's cool to be fond of past products, but without a change every now and then we'd probably be reading a "CRK Is Getting Stale" thread right now and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Nothing wrong with change, just my two cents

 

[snyper1ad]

I understand your concern as some of the changes on the 25 seem to be departures from the things I like most about the 21. That being said I'll wait till I get one in hand before I make a final decision. Some of my favorite knives were one I didn't like until I held one.

 

[strickland]

For me , The "Sebenza" is the regular version forever.

 

[JNewell]

For me , The "Sebenza" is the regular version forever.

Just for clarity, the 21/Classic style is the "regular," original style; the Regular was a big change from the original...but to the OP's point, as I posted in another thread last night, I have seven Sebenzas right now and a few other CRK folders with dates ranging from 1996 to 2011 and if you plotted them on a graph with date on one axis and quality on the other axis you'd get a straight line. :thumbup:

Knife people, like firearms people and a few other groups, are very resistant to change of any kind.

 

[calypso699]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I'm sure the new 25 is a fine knife in all respects. With that being said, in my opinion it's not a Sebenza.

The Sebenza that I know is simple.

The Sebenza I know has a bushing system completely eliminating all guesswork during assembly.

The Sebenza I know is so easy to breakdown, that sometimes I feel like Al Pachino in Scent of a Woman when he times himself taking apart his 1911 and putting it back together.

The Sebenza I know has a locating hole in the handle. Even if the hole is no longer needed, I would still like to see it there.

The Sebenza that I know has nice clean lines. It doesn't look tactical but will serve you well both in the field and at a wedding.

The Sebenza I know doesn't need to be flicked. Instead, it's got more of a sophisticated hydraulic feel when opening.

The Sebenza doesn't need to be flashy or show off. Its reputation speaks for itself. Even people who don't know anything about knives can tell the Sebenza is something different...something special.

I completely understand the need to innovate and change. Change is good, and I appreciate the fact that CRK is always looking for new ways to improve their products and offer something different. However, these changes have narrowed the gap between the Sebenza and the Umnumzaan. In my opinion, I would have been fine with a limited edition run (25 total) of Sebenzas that were completely handmade by Mr. reeve just like they were done in 1987 (thick handle slabs, no clip). Go ahead and add limited edition markings, maybe even a graphic. That would be an awesome tribute to the Sebenza that we all know and love.

 

[Mad_Maxx]

...
The Sebenza that I know is simple.

The Sebenza I know has a bushing system completely eliminating all guesswork during assembly.

The Sebenza I know is so easy to breakdown, that sometimes I feel like Al Pachino in Scent of a Woman when he times himself taking apart his 1911 and putting it back together.

The Sebenza I know has a locating hole in the handle. Even if the hole is no longer needed, I would still like to see it there.

The Sebenza that I know has nice clean lines. It doesn't look tactical but will serve you well both in the field and at a wedding.

The Sebenza I know doesn't need to be flicked. Instead, it's got more of a sophisticated hydraulic feel when opening.

The Sebenza doesn't need to be flashy or show off. Its reputation speaks for itself. Even people who don't know anything about knives can tell the Sebenza is something different...something special.

I agree totally

 

[JNewell]

I agree totally

Quoting your post rather than Calypso's to save space and to say I both like his "This is my Sebenza"-type credo and agree. There are many great knives; there is only one Sebenza.

 

[eduard]

yes u are right its just like a good movie.. rambo for example first movie was awesome but from then on they got worse and worse...same with the sebenza,
another point i think is the arrogance of chris. he doesent want to listen to his customers thinking that he knows everything.
maybe he should just do it like spyderco. you have written down my exact feelings on crk .
its just so obvious that crk is going downhill fast and there is nothing you can do about it because there is no way chris would take advice from his customers.. and its not like there is only one person complaining aubout recent quality. and there was definately a time when crk was one of the if not the best production knifemaker regarding quality out there.
sorry for my english.

 

[giant1]

Times change, companies come and go, and the knife world is in flux.

With all that is going on, I find it truly remarkable that Chris Reeve is celebrating a quarter of a century of production of the Sebenza knife.
It is without a doubt my favorite production knife and despite owning some very respectable custom folders I keep coming back to Sebenzas for my every day carry.

However, I am left wondering if things are still moving in the right direction. Is the best yet to come, or is the Golden Age of CRK in the past?
My dearest folder remains my large 2001 LE Redwood Burl Sebenza. Maybe it is just sentimentality that keeps drawing me back to it but I like everything about this knife.

People have debated endlessly about the changes in steel CRK has implemented over time but it seems fair to say that at best the changes reflect a lateral move rather than a significant improvement and I have seen some comments that have been less kind. My personal favorite Sebenza steel remains BG42, long gone from production.

The limited edition knives are gone now. The simplicity and ingenuity of the bushing pivot seems to be a thing of the past with the new style Sebenza. The Umfaan is gone and was never replaced. I liked the old one piece survival knives better than the military style replacements. The Mnandi has been a nice addition as a Gentleman's knife but the Umnumzaan added nothing that the large Sebenza couldn't do and I frankly don't understand the Ti-Lock at all.

I hope that Chris will prove me wrong and will continue to produce outstanding products for many years to come.
Maybe in the end the strongest feature of the Sebenza also ends up being its worst curse: Perfection is hard to improve.

I have to agree with this post.
Your last line in particular could prove to be true in the end.
All I know for sure is that I am hanging onto every Sebenza I have in my collection, even the 2010 LE which has the ugly IM stamp (which by the way was the last CRK product I have purchased)

 

[lemmuhj]

+1 I really think everyone should quit pushing the panic button lol..I love the sebenza/bushing etc, just as much as the next, but I really don't know how much easier it can get than with the umnum pivot. I literally set mine( I have three) at least a year ago, and I haven't looked back...no play and smooth as glass. I had the privelage of holding the new sebenza at blade, and it's awesome. I will however , wait to voice my final opinion on the entire design until I've had a go with it.

Maybe CRK is just focusing on moving forward? It would be easy to stick with the same model, no changes, same old same old 10 years, 20 years, 30 years on end.

I understand your viewpoint, but maybe this should be taken as a time of excitement? They've made alot of changes with the Sebenza 25, changes I'm looking forward to experiencing. I love the 21, but that's not preventing me from wanting to get my hands on a 25:thumbup:

It's cool to be fond of past products, but without a change every now and then we'd probably be reading a "CRK Is Getting Stale" thread right now and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Nothing wrong with change, just my two cents

 

[Ken44]

Maybe CRK is just focusing on moving forward? It would be easy to stick with the same model, no changes, same old same old 10 years, 20 years, 30 years on end.

I understand your viewpoint, but maybe this should be taken as a time of excitement? They've made alot of changes with the Sebenza 25, changes I'm looking forward to experiencing. I love the 21, but that's not preventing me from wanting to get my hands on a 25:thumbup:

It's cool to be fond of past products, but without a change every now and then we'd probably be reading a "CRK Is Getting Stale" thread right now and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Nothing wrong with change, just my two cents

+1 I really think everyone should quit pushing the panic button lol..I love the sebenza/bushing etc, just as much as the next, but I really don't know how much easier it can get than with the umnum pivot. I literally set mine( I have three) at least a year ago, and I haven't looked back...no play and smooth as glass. I had the privelage of holding the new sebenza at blade, and it's awesome. I will however , wait to voice my final opinion on the entire design until I've had a go with it.

I do love my Regulars, and Classics, but have to agree with both of you:thumbup:

 

[stjames]

The best is yet to come, and wont that be fine
You think youve seen the sun, but you aint seen it shine

Chris Reeve has taken everything he has learned about making folding knives over the last 25 years and put it into the Sebenza 25. I for one think it is worth actually seeing and using the knife before deciding his best days are behind him.

 

[JPR984]

Chris Reeve has taken everything he has learned about making folding knives over the last 25 years and put it into the Sebenza 25. I for one think it is worth actually seeing and using the knife before deciding his best days are behind him.

+1

A lot of the changes I see in the new "sebenza" seem to be in effort to reduce the number of future maintenance issues the traditional sebenzas have been sent in for. most with regard to pinched washers, lockup issues (locks sticking, worn locks, etc.) and while I agree the bushing systems was ingenious, I trust that Chris will provide the best most reliable knife that money can buy.

Chris, Thank you for these improvements!

 

[DanG]

Didn't have my coffee yet, but feel the need to comment. So please bear with me:

Generally, I am pretty conservative. So much so that I was really sad to see the BG 42 and the Regulars go, bitched about the Idaho stamp etc. But I have mostly come around and in this case I don't really see the problem the OP has.

CRK is in the business of selling knives. In business it's either evolve or die. While it's quite a challenge to improve on perfection, CRK does it regularly. That in itself is to be admired. There are some "atavistic" steps like the "idiot disc" on the Umnumzaan (and did I mention that I don't like it?!) or the axing of the Regulars, but mostly they get it right. So right in fact, that many customers at first don't see the value and advantage in the new. Just as an example: It took me weeks and several field dressings of deer to finally comprehend what the Nyala was all about. The thick and broad blade, the long, thin and almost round handle. The sheath. I have now come to appreciate it over the Loveless style drop point hunter. There, I said it. As always, the devil is in the details. And you just won't grasp the details fully until you use the product hard. Knife tests in the kitchen sink? Please.

The bushing has always been the hallmark of the Sebenza. But frankly, anyone who uses his Seb hard and cleans it regularly (e.g. after field dressing game) knows that the tight tolerances have some disadvantages as well (pinched washers, sensitivity to certain oils and greases etc.). So the new lock/pivot design may be (and now please brace yourself!) a step toward more simplicity. Yep, I said it may be even simpler.

And finally a word to those who still don't grasp the concept of evolution: Just embrace the "vintage" concept. The used/secondary market is your friend. If anyone wants a Regular, a BG 42 or somesuch, why not buy used? After all, there's a flourishing market in vintage Rolex watches that are several decades old. We'll get to that with the Sebenza too, eventually. After all, the reliable "service center" is there.

 

[kreole]

The bushing has always been the hallmark of the Sebenza. But frankly, anyone who uses his Seb hard and cleans it regularly (e.g. after field dressing game) knows that the tight tolerances have some disadvantages as well (pinched washers, sensitivity to certain oils and greases etc.). So the new lock/pivot design may be (and now please brace yourself!) a step toward more simplicity. Yep, I said it may be even simpler.

It's not correct that the pivot bushing had to be dropped to make that change. If tightness is/was a problem, they could simply manufacture the bushing to a different width. The tightness was a choice, not a necessity of having the bushing.

 

[JNewell]

yes u are right its just like a good movie.. rambo for example first movie was awesome but from then on they got worse and worse...same with the sebenza,
another point i think is the arrogance of chris. he doesent want to listen to his customers thinking that he knows everything.
maybe he should just do it like spyderco. you have written down my exact feelings on crk .
its just so obvious that crk is going downhill fast and there is nothing you can do about it because there is no way chris would take advice from his customers.. and its not like there is only one person complaining aubout recent quality. and there was definately a time when crk was one of the if not the best production knifemaker regarding quality out there.
sorry for my english.

That's a pretty damning indictment of a knifemaker who's been winning awards for decades. Can you elaborate, with some concrete examples? From your post below, it looks like you have only one data point to speak from.

crk is going downhill. first and last sebbie i purchased. unfortunately i bought my sebenza in 2011. best sebenza is the one with the solid washers and the smooth female screws and s30v blade.... too bad

 

[JAB]

Just a quick note to those who are lamenting the "downfall" of CRK and decrying the 25 before even handling one...If it wasn't for Chris Reeve striving to constantly improve his designs we wouldn't even have the Sebenza to begin with (much less the One Piece range, Mnandi, Umnumzaan [which, IIRC, had it's share of haters at first...], etc.)

Just for clarity, the 21/Classic style is the "regular," original style; the Regular was a big change from the original...but to the OP's point, as I posted in another thread last night, I have seven Sebenzas right now and a few other CRK folders with dates ranging from 1996 to 2011 and if you plotted them on a graph with date on one axis and quality on the other axis you'd get a straight line. :thumbup:

Knife people, like firearms people and a few other groups, are very resistant to change of any kind.

Yup, a lot of folks weren't all that pleased when the Regular debuted (myself included - even though I owned and carried a few). For me the Original/Classic/21 profile will always be "The Sebenza") and, according to Mr. Reeve, it was customer demand for a return to the Original style which led to the introduction of the Classic model in the first place.

 

[protodoc]

Thank you everyone for your comments but it seems that this thread has deteriorated a bit into a flame war against the Sebenza 25.
That was clearly not the intend of my post. Few of us have even held the new version and none of us have spend any time using it. I am not excited about the change in pivot design but only time will tell how it will perform.

Some people have talk about continued evolution of Chris Reeve Knives and I do understand that without trying something new we wouldn't have had the Sebenza in the first place.
However most ventures and products follow a pattern of ascend, zenith, and decline.

My musings were more along the line where the Sebenza knife and CRK company fall along that curve.
Again, I hope with all my heart that the best is yet to come and that the Golden Age is still ahead of us.