CRKT has Fired a Shot

Bugs3x

Bugs3x

Joined
Feb 21, 2001
Messages
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Typically a day short and a dollar late, by happenstance came across something on Knife Center's News page. Don't know if this is a carefully aimed shot across Spyderco's -- or anyone else's -- bow, but they popped off something.

CRKT has come out with a 2 3/4" bladed FRN lockback, called the Mo' Skeeter. Very different looking than the Delica, but the same length blade. Am assuming it is AUS6, but didn't learn that for sure. It isn't on CRKT's site yet. (Although I did find the Wrangler lockback there, that I'd somehow missed for however long it has been there. Certainly an effort to get into the traditional sort of knife, tho it is a lockback.)

If anyone has one of these, and can compare it to the Delica, I'd sure be interested. They're calling it an economy model, so it may be far below the Delica in quality. Knife Center is selling them for $20, a bit less than half their asking price for the Delica. Could be interesting.
 
With all due respect to CRKT, I'd rather have a Delica than one of their non-"budget" models--never mind a $20 CRKT knife.
 
Originally posted by Shmackey
With all due respect to CRKT, I'd rather have a Delica than one of their non-"budget" models--never mind a $20 CRKT knife.
Click to expand...

I agree. They make some ok knives, but the materials alone make spyderco a better value, let alone design, quality, and all the other attributes.
Earlier, someone called the Mo' Skeeter nativelike, and I agree, even though the design is totaly different they look somehow similar. Either way, barring any unforseen lottery winnings, I'll stick with the tried and true native and delica (I already have these, and therefore save 20 dollars :) ).
 
<<...with all due respect to CRKT...>.

Hmmm; I examined a couple of their products recently and was somewhat underwhelmed. Not even close to SpyderCo. Pardon me while I yawn...<G>

Steve
 
My folding knife accumulation has only three categories:

1) Folding Knives with hole (12, all Spydies)
2) Folding Knives without hole (7)

I don't like thumbstud openers in the first place, so only a few models that have other exceptions features make it into my hands.

Since CRKT has a bead blast blade fetish, the only folder of theirs I have is an S-2. Very nice scale design and quality materials. Otherwise, for a user, I will always take a Spyder.

Look for the Meerkat w/ Cricket Blade and Delica w/ VG-10 steel for low-end users.
 
Hmmm -- tho I said in my original post that the new CRKT knife could well be well below the Delica in quality, somehow the responses seem to suggest that I was trying to push the new knife.

Was just looking for someone who might have handled the new CRKT, because it is a lockback. In addition to too many beadblasted blades, and the other lockback I discovered yesterday, all the CRKTs I have experience with -- excepting 3 FBs and the S-2 -- are liner locks.

I just find it interesting that CRKT is going into the production of lockbacks. IMO, many of their knives offer a bigger bang for the buck than virtually any other company, perhaps excepting Outdoor Edge. If I recall Dexter Ewing's review of the M16 when it came out, he suggested it was as much knife as anybody else had on the market for up to 3 times the cost of the M16. Many threads I've read in these forums have expressed opinions that CRKT's knives are extremely well priced for what you get. Given the lower cost of making knives in Taiwan than in the US or Japan, it seems entirely possible to me that a CRKT lockback might well be a pretty good knife, even at only $20. If it turns out to be so, then I believe it could have a significant impact on Spyderco sales. Guess will just have to check it out myself.
 
I guess this is as good as anywhere to discuss the concept of "BANG FOR THE BUCK".

It is my belief that one does not get MORE bang for the buck. I believe that if the buck is smaller, so is the bang. If more bang for the buck means "I am willing to accept less of each feature in order to have all of the features", then it's not more bang for the buck. it is less bang for less buck.

Let's say (for discussion purposes only) that company A builds a 4" blade linerlock that retails for $100. Company S (Spyderco) builds a 4" blade linerlock (Military) that retails for $150.

They both have 4" of stainless steel in the blade. Company A is using AUS-8 for the blade. Company S is using 440V (for the purposes of this discussion, I would prefer not to get into which is better. If you don't like 440V, imagine it is either BG-42 or VG-10).

Assuming that Aichi made the AUS-8 (Which is the original maker for AUS-8), the steel wil cost $5 - $6 /lb. If the "AUS-8" was produced in China, same chemicals, different mfr, what might be called a knock off material, then it costs less]. Company S is paying $15 - $16 / lb for their better steel. Processing costs for the better steel are double that of AUS-8, but edge retention is also twice as good(based on CATRA tests). Twice the performance for 50% more cost.

both have linerlocks, but company A uses a straight ramp on the tang, a single pin for the pivot and the liner is held in with pins to the handle. Company S uses an offest arc ramp on the tang, considerably more expensive, but much more reliable. Company S uses a nested liner which is less likely to move, stronger and more rigid, but has incurred the extra cost of machining the handle material. Company S uses an adjustable eccentric so the liner can be adjusted for wear. lotsa hassle and expensive to build, but more controllable and greater longevity of liner life. That reliability, adjustability and rigidity costs much more.

Most of the items I just mentioned are not visible. The more experience you have and the more you know about knives, then the better company S looks in terms of real bang for the buck.

Does company A's product costs les? yes. But you get less. It's just in areas that you cannot see or do not have the experience to understand or the equipment to measure.

Just some thoughts to share.

It is much easier to for company S to produce product the equivalent of company A. Is the reverse true? not likely.

In the end, assuming profit margins are equal (another discussion), you get what you pay for.

sal
 
And that ladies and gentleman is the reason I buy Spyderco and not Crapola.

Nice lesson, Sal Keep 'em coming!
:)
 
And unsurprisingly, the locks on Company S's knives keep the blades open, like they're supposed to. Company A? Well, who knows?
 
From my previous experiances w/ CRKT it will be worth about $20 also. You get what you pay for. There's a reason that cliche has been around so long ... because it's true!
 
Well, sometimes you get what you pay for and some times you don't. Sometimes, you get more than what you pay for, and sometimes you get less. I recall Warren Buffet being quoted as saying something like: "Price is what you pay, value is what you get" , suggesting that there is not always a proportional relationship between what you pay and what you get. So, sometimes you can get more bang for the buck, and sometimes you can get less. You just have to watch out and be an educated consumer. I think there are bargains to be had, sometimes, in knives and lots of other things, if you know what to look for. Still, I like my Spydercos a lot, and CRKT doesn't really interest me, although some of CRKT's knives look interesting and are probably okay.
 
Well, think I best be oozing out of this thread as quietly as possible. Thanks Marty123 and Warren Buffet for providing a succinct statement of all I was trying to say. Price is what is paid. Value is what is received. (And, value is often largely subjective.)
 
Hi Bugs. Need to keep it light. There was no argument intnded. I know, like and respect the CRKT boys. I am not trying to discredit any other companies. My explanation was more on education of knifemaking and how diferent companies make their offerings.

sal
 
Hi Sal. Your "Bang for the buck" comments were very interesting. Thanks. And, when is the Vesuvius going to show up in a store around here?
 
Huh, I guess I must be a strange one, I like Spyderco and CRKT. How is it possible to like both you say? Dunno, but it happens.

CRKT has some neat designs and the ones I have had have been hard working knives capable of performing very well for me. Currently I am toting around a point guard and as soon as the Carson f4 is out I will have a couple of those.

I also like my Spydercos. My Police model is one of my older one handed knives. It looks a little beat up and has been to Spyderco once for a tune up as I used it as a pry bar one to many times. Also I have an Endura that has been a real work horse. Its serrations are now just some shallow bumps from so much sharpening over the years, but it still works great.

I used to fall into the trap of finding one brand and being a rabid fan of it. I would defend said brand by finding faults in others. I feel much better now that I realize that plenty of companies can make quality knives in many price ranges. Give others a chance, you might be surprised.
 
Good call Sal, there is no such thing as a free lunch and in my opinion cheaper is always less...99.9% of the time;)
 
Thanks, Sal. I certainly wanted to keep it light. I do appreciate the information/ideas you put forth in your first post. I am always trying to learn as much as I can about knives, how they're made, the effects of design, etc. Your post offered a lot in that area. Mostly, it put a lot of questions in my head. Questions that I'll try to get answers to.

I like what Richard said, that one can appreciate more than one knife company's products. That's where I'm at.
 
I collect and enjoy knives made by many companies and custom makers. I really don't want to get into a contest on whether an apple is better than an orange. That was not the issue.

I know someone that believes "if it's cheaper, it's better" because in their values, the lower costs is perceived as the highest value. I now another that is close that believes that "the most expensive is always the best".

I do not agree with either. "All good, just different".

A company tries to serve the values and needs of their customer base and if possible, increase market share. As long as it's done without deception, "it's all good".

sal
 
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