CRKT M16 EDC and Sharpmaker WOES...HELP

Joined
May 18, 2006
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So I exceitedly got my sharpmaker...and watched the video like 5 times. Then I went on to sharpen my CRKT folder...but I let it run off the stones...i followed all the steps but now I have a blunt knife with what seems to be like a bur in the front. The tip of the blade also changed shape ( probably due to the different preasure applied while sharpening and letting the blade run off the stone)

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As you can see from the above...my knife now looks like that at the tip when u look at it from the front facing the top of the knife. It is sort of more steep to one side. It is now also blunt, cant even shave paper. Help please...I love this knife but am starting to dislike the sharpmaker just minutes after buying...

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Thanks...and sorry for being a newbie at this.
 
mafeya said:
I followed all the steps but now I have a blunt knife with what seems to be like a bur in the front.

If you look at the edge of the knife you can see the scratches from the stones leave a gap across the edge, this is because the edge was initially ground on a wheel which made it concave or hollow ground - generally you won't get stable edge behavior until this hollow is removed. You are also hitting the full height of the edge which means honing on the Sharpmaker will be a slow process.

If you want to stick to the Sharpmaker then start with the corners of the brown rods and hone until the edge forms a full burr. At this point it will slice paper readily and shave with one side of the blade and not the other. If the bevel doesn't closely match the Sharpmaker's angle this could take awhile, 10-15 minutes isn't uncommon. You may also have to clean the rods as they get heavily loaded as they will stop cutting.

Only now when the edges meet clean from the corners of the medium rods do you switch to the flats of the medium rods and then to the fine hones if desired. While this seems like a long time it is only the first sessions which takes awhile because you are setting the edge to match the Sharpmaker. Once the edge has the right shape then subsequent sharpenings are much faster. You can speed the process up by using an x-coarse hone to grind the intial edge to the right shape or provide a relief.

The tip of the blade also changed shape ...

Most tips are ground at a more obtuse angle than the rest of the blade so when you use a Sharpmaker or any jig which is preset at a lower angle you will induce the edge in the tip to change angle. If you grind heavily into one side and not the other you may see the effect of this relief grind as the bevel will get wider on one side. The grind will even up once you establish the same relief grind on the other side assuming the primary grind is actually symmetric anyway.

It also isn't uncommon for people to have a left/right bias when sharpening because you judge angles differently on your left/right side so most hand sharpened knives have slight differences anyway. I have seen much larger tip variances than what you have pictured even on high end knives like Dozier for example. It is common to have the edges ground at 10-15 degrees on one side and 15-20 on the other and if there is any difference in sweep they become even more asymmetric.

In short, it isn't a big problem, establish a sharp edge with the corners of the medium rods and then refine it by proceeding to the flat and then the fine stones. You may want to do a search for relief grinds and micro-bevels as these will make the process more efficient.

-Cliff
 
Cliff is so smart it scares me sometimes. He is right. From the pictures you haven't completely removed the steel from the edge.

Try the "black magic marker" trick that all good knife sharpeners know about. Mark the edges of the knife with the marker and sharpen away. You will see very easily see where the stone/rod is touching and removing steel by the way the black mark is removed. A little magnifying glass helps as does decent lighting.

Be patient. Don't go to the next step until the edge is very sharp at the current step. Initially this may take more time than you realize but once you have the knife sharp it will be very easy to resharpen it. Forget the "so many strokes per side" bit in the instructions when you first sharpen the knife. It never worked for me. I was frustrated and thought I was doing something wrong. Then I was told by another sharpener to keep at it and don't quit until the edge was sharp. If it takes 1,000 strokes so be it.

You can do it!

You are at the right forum, let us know how you do. I sure like your pictures.

http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=26036
 
DGG said:
From the pictures you haven't completely removed the steel from the edge.

This really screws people sometimes as that initial edge can be really weak and give you are a really bad impression of the abilties of the steel. A lot of people judge the Mora knives harshly for this reason for example as the hollow edge can fold immediately. I have measured then at 5 degrees per side at the very edge due to the hollow.

Forget the "so many strokes per side" bit in the instructions when you first sharpen the knife. It never worked for me. I was frustrated and thought I was doing something wrong. Then I was told by another sharpener to keep at it and don't quit until the edge was sharp.

This is actually one of the longest running debates. You can see exchanges on this by Joe and Sal for example years ago and each of them note that one methods often succeeds where the other fails. Often I find the best method is to combine them and so I suggest sharpening for a specific number of passes and then checking the sharpness. This way you divide the task up into smaller goals and it always feels like you are accomplishing something.

-Cliff
 
Hey mafeya:

Unless I'm not seeing your photo right, that knife is not a very good candidate for the Sharpmaker. Your edge looks like it goes thru a pretty significant change from tip to heel... the heel looks like a pretty big angle. I don't think 10-15 min. with a medium stone will touch it. The suggestion Cliff made of using an X-coarse hone to grind a relief would be better. It also looks like you have a chip near the tip... whether you want to remove that or not is up to you.

The Sharpmaker has its good points, but major edge work is not one of them. You can get the diamond rods which would help a great deal, but if you do a search in this forum, you'll find there are better (and cheaper) alternatives.

cbw
 
Thanks everyone...you really inspired me. I went back and tried more times and abit slower this time. It got quite sharp. Kinda happy but want to make it sharper. It seems that if I go up to a finer grit, it becomes more dull...hrm.

If it is chisel ground, does that mean it cant be used with the sharpmaker?

By the way, how do I remove the chip near the tip? Just keep sharpening ( is it called that? )?
 
I have found that it is harder to minimize the burr on the finer stones, I assume this is just because of a lower abrasive/deformation ratio. Thus a crisp edge often becomes side biased on the fine stones if you use too much pressure.

You can sharpen chisel ground edges on the Sharpmaker. You can either turn it into a v-ground bevel by just honing it evenly, or tilt the back side so it runs down the stone flat and maintain the chisel grind.

The chip will go away eventually with sharpening. Unless it is causing you a problem you probably don't want to waste the time removing every edge imperfection. It was likely just due to the initial edge hollow.

-Cliff
 
Hey guys...you all helped so much and now my knife is as sharp as i want it to be. Though I could still work on getting a cleaner smoother edge. Anyway...I wanted to share these pictures with for helping me:

http://yeojeremy.blogspot.com

Thanks.
 
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