CRKT provoke slicing pockets?

B

Bryce Chrisakis

Joined
May 17, 2017
Messages
156
So I bought a CRKT provoke and fell absolutely in love and will be buying more Karambits (fox 599 already ordered) I discovered you can wave the provoke open similar to an emerson wave but I've put a hole in 2 sets of jeans now...anyone else have this problem?
 
Bryce Chrisakis said:
So I bought a CRKT provoke and fell absolutely in love and will be buying more Karambits (fox 599 already ordered) I discovered you can wave the provoke open similar to an emerson wave but I've put a hole in 2 sets of jeans now...anyone else have this problem?
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I think someone else mentioned this in an earlier thread. Just another reason IMO why the Provoke should come w/a sheath rather than be carried in a pocket.

BTW, I've got nothing against waved knives (I've got many) but I think that the Provoke is too thick and bulky to be pocketed to begin with and a waved knife ideally should be as thin and compact as possible in order to be drawn quickly and effectively.
 
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sgt1372 said:
I think someone else mentioned this in an earlier thread. Just another reason IMO why the Provoke should come w/a sheath rather than be carried in a pocket.

BTW, I've got nothing against waved knives (I've got many) but I think that the Provoke is too thick and bulky to be pocketed to begin with and a waved knife ideally should be as thin and compact as possible in order to be drawn easier to draw quickly and effectively.
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Agreed! That's what I'm hoping the fox will be
 
rogatsby said:
Question for those who carry waved knives and karambits: Do you face situations often where you need to defend yourself with a knife? If so, that is scary. If not, why carry these types of knives?
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Good question. I am a life long martial artist and instructor. It is true that in the modern world of the average person like myself the chances of me having to defend myself is very slim, but should the day come I will be better prepared than the average person and that gives confidence not only physically but in all aspects of daily life training gives confidence. However martial arts is also an art form with many different aspects to it armed combat is one of those aspects that I find enjoyable to train and hopefully the day never comes that I'd have to inplement but again id be more confident than the average person. It also allows me to take my knife hobby and martial arts and combine them.
 
Bryce Chrisakis said:
Good question. I am a life long martial artist and instructor. It is true that in the modern world of the average person like myself the chances of me having to defend myself is very slim, but should the day come I will be better prepared than the average person and that gives confidence not only physically but in all aspects of daily life training gives confidence. However martial arts is also an art form with many different aspects to it armed combat is one of those aspects that I find enjoyable to train and hopefully the day never comes that I'd have to inplement but again id be more confident than the average person. It also allows me to take my knife hobby and martial arts and combine them.
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I understand your point and your personal position. But I am a lawyer, and just a word of advice. If heaven forbid there comes a time when you do actually need to defend yourself with a knife, and the other person is seriously injured or even killed, the type of knife you used will make a difference in the overall proceedings. Of course, the self-defense aspect will be crucial, and will be the key finding of fact, but there will be a difference between using a regular pocket knife like a Delica or other working EDC knife than something like a karambit or a waved knife. Besides, if you are a martial artist, you could probably use a less outwardly lethal knife to good effect anyway. Obviously, this is your choice, and I am not trying to impose anything at all on your personal choice or freedom. But I think you should be aware that in a legal setting, there will be a difference in what type of knife you use, even if you assert self-defense.

Then, there is also the underlying issue of whether the karambits, waved knives, knives with huge blades, etc. are legal in your jurisdiction in the first place, but I'm sure you have already looked into that and decided it is OK.
 
rogatsby said:
Question for those who carry waved knives and karambits: Do you face situations often where you need to defend yourself with a knife? If so, that is scary. If not, why carry these types of knives?
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Same reason people think they need to carry a gun. Just in case. Sh*t happens and you never know when/where that might be.

FWIW, I'm a retired LEO and can legally carry a gun concealed whenever I like, within the limitations of the law. However, IMO, carrying a gun is a PITA which also carries with it great responsibility as well as substantial potential criminal and civil liabilities. So, I only carry a gun when I think that I will be somewhere where the "risk" justifies it, which is seldom the case for me anymore.

So, I carry a Bastinelli/Marcaida Pika karambit (as well as a folder) which are very compact and easy to carry w/me everyday instead. The knives will not do me any good in a gun fight but the probability that I will need a gun during my normal daily activities IMO is very low and, for most situations that I'm likely to be involved in, the Pika and folder will be sufficient for any SD necessity.

The most likely situation requiring the use of the Pika or folder would be a verbal confrontation w/another person which escalates into physical conflict. Of course, I would try to deescalate and walk away from the situation but if I can't and if I am physically attacked, I would have no hesitation in drawing either the Pika or the folder to use in SD.

Unlike a gun, the potential liabilities for using a knife in SD are far less than a gun in terms of the likely physical injuries caused as a result. Often, simply drawing a knife can defuse a confrontation; there'll still be verbal insults exchanged but when an unarmed person is confronted w/a knife, they usually back off.

Also, unless you intentionally target specific body parts (like the neck and inner groin, where the carotid and femoral arteries are most vulnerable) any cuts that you make are unlikely to be fatal; not so a gun. Drawing a gun these days is also likely to create chaos and immediately draw the attention of law enforcement. Not so a knife.

So, that's why I normally carry a Pika karambit and a folder w/me everyday instead of a gun.

However, given the recent history of mass shootings in public places from clubs to places of worship, if I frequented such places, I would ALWAYS carry a gun with me because those places have been proven to be susceptible to attack w/o warning and I'd rather be prepared than not.

PS: I am also a retired attorney, inactive but still licensed to practice law in two different jurisdictions.
 
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sgt1372 said:
Same reason people think they need to carry a gun. Just in case. Sh*t happens and you never know when/where that might be.

FWIW, I'm a retired LEO and can legally carry a gun concealed whenever I like, within the limitations of the law. However, IMO, carrying a gun is a PITA which also carries with it great responsibility as well as substantial potential criminal and civil liabilities. So, I only carry a gun when I think that I will be somewhere where the "risk" justifies it, which is seldom the case for me anymore.

So, I carry a Bastinelli/Marcaida Pika karambit (as well as a folder) which are very compact and easy to carry w/me everyday instead. The knives will not do me any good in a gun fight but the probability that I will need a gun during my normal daily activities is very low and that, for most situations that I'm likely to be involved in, the Pika and folder will be sufficient for any SD necessity.

The most likely situation requiring the use of the Pika or folder would be a verbal confrontation w/another person which escalates into physical conflict Of course, I would try to deescalate and walk away from the situation but if I can't and if I am physically attacked, I would have no hesitation in drawing either the Pika or the folder to use in SD.

Unlike a gun, the potential liabilities for using a knife in SD are far less than a gun in terms of the likely physical injuries caused as a result. Often, simply drawing a knife can defuse a confrontation; there'll still be verbal insults exchanged but when an unarmed person is confronted w/a knife, they usually back off. Also, unless you intentionally target specific body parts (like the neck and inner groin, where the carotid and femoral arteries are most vulnerable) and cuts that you make are unlikely to be fatal; not so a gun. Drawing a gun these days is also likely to create chaos and immediately draw the attention of law enforcement. Not so a knife.

So, that's why I normally carry a Pika karambit and a folder w/me everyday instead of a gun.

However, given the recent history of mass shootings in public places from clubs to places of worship, if I frequented such places, I would ALWAYS carry a gun with me because those places have been proven to be susceptible to attack w/o warning and I'd rather be prepared than not.

PS: I am also a retired attorney, inactive but still licensed to practice law in two different jurisdictions.
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Trust me, and I think you already know. Whether knife or gun, it should be a last resort. Running or even apologizing are usually better choices. And if you kill someone with a karambit, even if they were punching and kicking you, it will be a massive headache and cost you tons of money to defend yourself in court.
 
rogatsby said:
Trust me, and I think you already know. Whether knife or gun, it should be a last resort. Running or even apologizing are usually better choices. And if you kill someone with a karambit, even if they were punching and kicking you, it will be a massive headache and cost you tons of money to defend yourself in court.
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As I said above: "Of course, I would try to deescalate and walk away from the situation but if I can't and if I am physically attacked, I would have no hesitation in drawing either the Pika or the folder to use in SD."

As attorneys, you and I both know that the use of deadly force in self defense is only legally justified if you have a reasonable fear that "death or serious bodily injury" could result as a consequence of an attack on you (or another person).

Although it is not as lethal as a gun, a knife is considered a deadly weapon (as fatal LEO shootings of people holding but not dropping knives fast enough has proven) and should therefore be used accordingly.

However, as I also said above, the likelihood of killing someone w/a knife is less likely than w/a gun and most likely only if you target certain vulnerable body parts like the neck or inner groin (assuming that you are just using a slashing motion) or in the midsection or chest (if you are using a stabbing motion instead).

This is also why a karambit is often better to use than a dagger for SD because the karambit is a mainly a slashing weapon and less likely to cause fatal injury if only being used defensively to slash an arm or leg, as opposed to stabbing someone in the chest (an offensive move) w/a dagger. ;)
 
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rogatsby said:
Trust me, and I think you already know. Whether knife or gun, it should be a last resort. Running or even apologizing are usually better choices. And if you kill someone with a karambit, even if they were punching and kicking you, it will be a massive headache and cost you tons of money to defend yourself in court.
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This is true.

I would like to point out, that situations don't always allow for running or apologizing. If it's a sudden blitz attack, or if the attacker (or attackers) are younger and fitter than you are (or outnumber you), or if there's some physical injury or other issue that prevents you from outrunning someone.

Obviously, the best defense is awareness and avoiding the situation/location of potential trouble in the first place. But that isn't always possible, and stuff can happen anywhere.

As far as knives in SD, IMO it would probably be better if the knife is more 'common' and less clearly 'specialized' for combative purposes. My opinion only.

Jim
 
rogatsby said:
Question for those who carry waved knives and karambits: Do you face situations often where you need to defend yourself with a knife? If so, that is scary. If not, why carry these types of knives?
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My Emerson Karambit (old version) is great for cutting tasks that a curved blade works well for.
It is also a small knife, so no one gives a crap when I use it to open a package, cut a zip tie, or get a splinter out of my finger.

I carry a waved knife in this case because the knife was manufactured with a wave feature.
I don't really feel like grinding it off.

(By the way, the Spyderco version of the wave feature is AWESOME for opening beers. The Emerson version, not so much.)
 
rogatsby said:
Question for those who carry waved knives and karambits: Do you face situations often where you need to defend yourself with a knife? If so, that is scary. If not, why carry these types of knives?
Click to expand...

I find myself working up ladders, carrying stuff, or in awkward spots where I often need to open a knife one handed. A wave is merely a one handed opener.
 
rogatsby said:
I understand your point and your personal position. But I am a lawyer, and just a word of advice. If heaven forbid there comes a time when you do actually need to defend yourself with a knife, and the other person is seriously injured or even killed, the type of knife you used will make a difference in the overall proceedings. Of course, the self-defense aspect will be crucial, and will be the key finding of fact, but there will be a difference between using a regular pocket knife like a Delica or other working EDC knife than something like a karambit or a waved knife. Besides, if you are a martial artist, you could probably use a less outwardly lethal knife to good effect anyway. Obviously, this is your choice, and I am not trying to impose anything at all on your personal choice or freedom. But I think you should be aware that in a legal setting, there will be a difference in what type of knife you use, even if you assert self-defense.

Then, there is also the underlying issue of whether the karambits, waved knives, knives with huge blades, etc. are legal in your jurisdiction in the first place, but I'm sure you have already looked into that and decided it is OK.
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so you're giving free legal advice on the internet? for people in all 50 states and various countries across the world with very different laws. is that a good idear?
 
jbmonkey said:
so you're giving free legal advice on the internet? for people in all 50 states and various countries across the world with very different laws. is that a good idear?
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I'm giving practical and obvious advice. Look, these types of knives are legal in lots of places. That doesn't mean there is no potential detriment to carrying or using them, especially for self defense. Often, these types of situations come down to one person's word against another's. And if you seriously injure someone with something like a karambit or a waved knife, there will be a difference in perception as opposed to using a normal knife. That is all I am saying.
 
rogatsby said:
I'm giving practical and obvious advice. Look, these types of knives are legal in lots of places. That doesn't mean there is no potential detriment to carrying or using them, especially for self defense. Often, these types of situations come down to one person's word against another's. And if you seriously injure someone with something like a karambit or a waved knife, there will be a difference in perception as opposed to using a normal knife. That is all I am saying.
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so be it. if you think its a good idear, have at it.
 
If we follow this logic no one should carry a SAK because in Cali it's classed as a d
rogatsby said:
I'm giving practical and obvious advice. Look, these types of knives are legal in lots of places. That doesn't mean there is no potential detriment to carrying or using them, especially for self defense. Often, these types of situations come down to one person's word against another's. And if you seriously injure someone with something like a karambit or a waved knife, there will be a difference in perception as opposed to using a normal knife. That is all I am saying.
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In this particular section we're all pretty able to parse out the "Legal" issues, and the "Prac-Tac" concerns of use or carry of these knives.

We get it. Switchblades get kids to join violence gangs as proven by that famous documentary Rebel Without a Cause. Karambits and and really any one hand opener will get you sent to Sing Sing. We're really all well aware of the risks.
 
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