Cross-Forged ??

Cobalt

Cobalt

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aside from the Zubeng guy at Blade show, has anyone here ever cross-forged a knife? ever heard of it?

was wondering because it sounds like an interesting technique to add mechanical strength and impact toughness to a steel.
 
As described on the Zubeng website.

Mr. Chen Rong-liang is bringing back the long-lost cross forging technique. Cross forging is to repeatedly bi-fold then cross-tri-fold a piece of carbon steel for 13 times, resulting in layered steel.

I'm not sure that description is going to help.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
As described on the Zubeng website.

Mr. Chen Rong-liang is bringing back the long-lost cross forging technique. Cross forging is to repeatedly bi-fold then cross-tri-fold a piece of carbon steel for 13 times, resulting in layered steel.

I'm not sure that description is going to help.
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yep, that's it. it sounds like damascus but without using two different steels and limited layers. Of course, he claims an Rc of 67 while retaining toughness and edge impact toughness as well. Doesn't specify the steel except to say that it is similar to the typical high end katana steel. so it is definitely carbon steel probably similar to 1084. Since he is folding it I doubt that it is a more complext steel, but not really sure.
 
tom mayo said:
:rolleyes: :confused: :p :confused: :rolleyes:

A new technique???? I doubt it.
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Zubeng say they are bringing back a long lost technique. I always though that long lost meant that people had forgotten long ago how to use that technique. If it is long forgotten, how did they find out how to do it?
 
To quote a Canadian songwriter: "I've got to say that I just don't get it." :confused:

If you start out with a bar of carbon steel, I just can't see how folding it over a bunch of times improves it in any way. I am more than willing to listen to an explanation, however.

As to whether this is really some "long lost" technique, well.... I dunno...

And no, I don't know of anyone else doing it. If I did, I'd sure ask them why.

Roger
 
aside from the obvious hype I would think folding the steel would increase it's toughness in a similar fashion that plywood is tougher than regular wood planking. This is only a guess, as I don't really know.
 
My guess is that this means folding the steel like a taco, as seen in typical Japanese sword construction methods...and hype.

John
 
I can still remember when a few American smiths started making Damascus a few decades ago. it was claimed that they had discovered the ancient lost art of Damascus steel. Now of course it told that they only claimed to re-introduce it. Well, it was never lost. Or May be just here in North America. There were smiths, and manufacturers around the globe making it, and still are. I have one brought back from Nam that is well made. The Germans were, and still are making it. As are peoples around the world. The eastern method of folding metal, and sandwiching metal is just as UN-lost. Don't fall for it. Mike
 
John Frankl said:
My guess is that this means folding the steel like a taco, as seen in typical Japanese sword construction methods...and hype.

John
Click to expand...

not really, as the guy is folding it 13 times which gives it 26 layers, correct? And if I am not mistaken it is folded in both directions not just one. Seems like a lot of work. Could this be done with a steel like 52100?
 
Cobalt said:
aside from the obvious hype I would think folding the steel would increase it's toughness in a similar fashion that plywood is tougher than regular wood planking. This is only a guess, as I don't really know.
Click to expand...

If you take a square piece of steel and fold it over edge to edge, the grain will still run in the same direction. The only way you will get same effect you get with plywood the grain of each layer would have to run at 90 degrees to the ones next to it. This only works if you fold corner to corner, so maybe that is what they are doing.
 
Cobalt said:
not really, as the guy is folding it 13 times which gives it 26 layers, correct? And if I am not mistaken it is folded in both directions not just one. Seems like a lot of work. Could this be done with a steel like 52100?
Click to expand...

Actually, if you fold over a piece of steel 13 times, I think you end up with 8192 layers. In forging a blade you would lose some of these layers as scale.
 
A piece of typing paper folded onto itself 13 times is still a piece of typing paper, only thicker.......... I must be missing something too.

Poor old "missing something" Robert
 
1 layer folded over:

1st fold is doubling the layer = 2

2nd (2 layers doubled) = 4

3rd (4 layers doubled) = 8

4th (8 layers doubled) = 16

5th = 32

6th = 64

7th = 128

8th = 256

9th = 512

10th = 1024

11th = 2048

12th = 4096

13th = 8192 layers

That's a lot of folding, and I don't know why you would do it with a monosteel.

Maybe it's the best thing ever. :)


-Nick-

http://www.wheelerknives.com
 
If this were a low manganese material like 1095 all of this forging might drop the Carbon content down maybe 20%. This would put it in a very usable sword range. If it were a shallow hardening material like 1095 and clay coated and water quenched it could possibly preform quite well. With carbide and alloy banding this piece could be in the million layer range and cut well and be fairly durable...Take Care...Ed
 
Keith Montgomery said:
If you take a square piece of steel and fold it over edge to edge, the grain will still run in the same direction. The only way you will get same effect you get with plywood the grain of each layer would have to run at 90 degrees to the ones next to it. This only works if you fold corner to corner, so maybe that is what they are doing.
Click to expand...

Yes, and that is probably what he means by cross-forging. I think he mentioned that, he folds the steel in both directions, ie. 90 degrees.

It's basically a damascus of the same steel..why?
 
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