Cross Vise For Guards

medit8

medit8

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Joined
Apr 25, 2002
Messages
181
I've had a varied success with drilling holes in a straight line for my guard slots using my regular drill vise, so I thought about getting a cross vise to help with this. I searched the forum for cross vise info and found some interesting info, mostly about the pros and cons about using the cross vise as a mill substitute, but I still have a few questions. I plan to clamp one to my drill press table and use it to put a hole in my guard material, then use it's functional ability to move the guard a little bit forward while remaining stationary, and then drill another hole, and then perhaps repeat one more time. I virtually always use 3/16" 1095, and with hidden tangs guards I figure I should then be able to file these holes into a (now perfectly straight) guard slot. So, what I'm wondering is if my thinking about this process is correct and if the weight of the cross drill itself will be stressful to the drill press table. Also, should I be using a 3/16" drill bit or a smaller size? I'm planning on getting this 5" vise from HF http://tinyurl.com/a3b25 It's listed as having a 1 1/4" depth, but it was actually 1 1/2" when I saw it in person. I plan on putting a piece of hard wood under the guard material as a base for the drilling,
They also have a 4" machinest cross vise and I don't know if this one would be better, but it is lighter. Also, I have no idea if the designation of "machinest" makes this vise better or worse for my needs. Any help about these questions, or any other info will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
 
The problem with cross slide vises is they are sloppy and you can never mill a straight line. The only way to tighten them up is adjust the tracking set screws until you can barely move the vise. The chuck will also have some drift to it. A milling machine has the motor move down with the mill bit so ther is little drift. Your slot holes should be under sized since filing is not very precise and you will need some correction/wiggle room to get the slot to fit the tang tightly. I still use a punch for drilling the holes to keep the bit from drifting. Use a smaller bit and drill many holes as close together as possible then move up a size. That way you will have more overlap and less clean up filing.

I just got a jewelers saw and I am going to try drilling two holes and sawing out the slot. Hopefully it will be faster and cleaner.
 
The only thing better than a jewelers saw is a milling machine.Use one a bit on some scrap,and get used to sawing.It makes a near perfect fit.BTW ,the teeth face the handle.It cuts on the down stroke.
 
No offense, but your search didn't turn up much or you would have seen where hardly anyone will recommend using a drill press as a mill.

They weren't built for it and the bearings won't take the lateral stress for long without getting sloppy on you, not to mention the chuck is on a tapered arbor just held in by friction and magic.
The whole chuck/arbor assembly can come out of the drill press from the lateral pressure without warning and at the worst possible time.

Besides possible damage to you, it will likely sustain damage when it hits the floor and spins all around that concrete getting scratches and nicks in the arbor and knocking the chuck all to Hell, requiring new ones to keep drilling round holes.

There is no way to lock the quill on the drill press either, adding to the lack of good tolerance, not to mention that the cross vises are not real tight as far as tolerance either. But the biggest problem is, the drill press is just not designed for milling.

If you're serious about this, get yourself the biggest mill that you can afford, avoiding anything with the word "mini", or "micro" in the description.

I'm not mocking you here, just letting you know what can happen. It's been tried many times.:eek:
 
Bob, Although the cross vise that you sent the link to is made in the industrial tool manifacturing capital of the world its not that bad of a tool. The secret of using a tool is learning how to use it and not to be afraid to try it. So many go from hearsay and condem things without giving them a try. Also using it with a good drill press makes a huge difference. I have the floor mount Rigid Brand sold threw Home depot. Its not as good as the one I bought there 5 or 6 years ago but it still does the job for me. Its also made in China. Don't use mill bits, us carbide burrs. The ones I get I get at flea markets but I've also seen them at gunshows. There called Megatool Chip Saver drill bits. There solid carbide and have a plastic collar stop. For 99% of my guards I'll us the 1/8" ones. They were made to drill computor circut boards. The ones I get at the flea market are used but you'd never know by looking at them. They will break but there pretty cheap. I buy them in 100 piece groups, the last batch I bought cost me $15.00 so thats 15c each. Normally I'll get at least a couple guards done before breaking them. Depending on the size slot I'll drill several holes in line and then chuck up one of these bits. Don't hog them. Use an up and down motion with the drill press and apply little pressure with the cross vise. Us your head and wear safty glasses.
 
Raymond Richard said:
Bob, Although the cross vise that you sent the link to is made in the industrial tool manifacturing capital of the world its not that bad of a tool. The secret of using a tool is learning how to use it and not to be afraid to try it. So many go from hearsay and condem things without giving them a try. .
Click to expand...

I agree 100%,

Unfortunately I got caught up in this subject but being stubborn I ordered this video that was recommended to me http://www.cartertools.com/vcr.html by JOSE RODRIGUEZ and with the conversions my drill press and cross vise is working just great for milling guards. I would love to share with everyone how he does it but I do not want to infringe on his income.

Just follow the link above and scroll down to "MILLING WITHOUT A MILLING MACHINE"

After the cost of the video I spent 7.00 in parts for the conversion.
 
I agree with Jim and Ray with certain reservations. I use a good but not overly expensive cross slide rather than a vise. It is just a little more rigid.

I start by drilling undersized holes the length of the slot. This serves to hog out material. Back your slide/vise along the same axis and use a burr as described.

Go very slowly so the spindle doesn't have a chance to flex.

Last, chuck the burr so it is as short as it can be in the drill press. you'd be amazed how much the shanks can flex.
 
Thanks to all for all the great input. I may not have been as clear as I meant to be in my original post. I had no intention of drilling the guard (locked in the cross vise) and then using the movement of the vise against the moving drill bit to lenghten the slot (that's what milling is, right?). The results of the search I did kind of put me off about trying that. I just intended to use the cross vise for one drilling and then stop the drill, and move the guard forward, which the cross vise would seem to allow to happen with good accuracy, and then drill again, and perhaps do it once more. This is to create the holes in a straight line. I then intend to use a file, or thanks to earlier suggestions, a jewelers saw, to cut through the spaces between the holes and then square the sides and ends off with files. Just using a drill press vise to hole the guard material and then moving it after the first hole has been drilled has often ended up with my holes being off-line with each other, and this has caused the slot to be wider then is appropriate for a tight fit on the blade/tang by the time I got done filing and squaring it off. So my questions were directed towards understanding if this method would actually work, and if a cross vise can be used on the drill press securely enough for this, and would the heavy weight of the cross vise itself mess up the drill press's platform. But I have to admit that now that the idea has been presented, I am considering getting the video that shows how to convert a small drill press into a mill-type function that could cut out slots. But I really like the drill press that I now have too much to risk it's present good quality performance, and would just get a HF $39.99 one or something similar for the conversion experiment. Anyway, I do appreciate the ideas being shared . Thanks. Oh yeah, does anybody know just what the difference between a machinist cross vise is and a regular cross vise, and would one be better than the other for the straight-line (one at a time) drilling I have in mind?
Thanks again,
Bob
 
One thing I learned from someone posting on a forum was to scribe a straight line on the guard prior to drilling the bit will find the scribe line and it is whole lot easier keeping it straight this way, especially if using a standard drill bit as you drill your first pilot holes.

It may have been Steve Schwarzer but not sure who gave this hint but it does work "more better" this way.

Craig
 
C L Wilkins said:
One thing I learned from someone posting on a forum was to scribe a straight line on the guard prior to drilling the bit will find the scribe line and it is whole lot easier keeping it straight this way, especially if using a standard drill bit as you drill your first pilot holes.

It may have been Steve Schwarzer but not sure who gave this hint but it does work "more better" this way.

Craig
Click to expand...


Or, Scribe the line like Craig said and put a cold chisel in that line and tap it with the hammer. It doesn't have to be a hard hit, but it makes the drill bit center a lot easier without wandering.
 
Yo Mike and Craig,
Fantastic suggestions. Just tried it and I think my problem is now solved. Much appreciated!
Thanks,
Bob
 
Along with the scribed line you can use a center punch to mark the exact location of your holes so the drill bit will not run off along the line.
A center drill, a short, very rigid drill bit is great for making a starting hole too.
That way nothing can run off.

Mike
 
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