Crossbows , the new bow .

K

Kevin the grey

Joined
Aug 26, 2005
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I know there is some prejudice on my part . They are pushing hard to have crossbows in regular archery season here . It did not help to have a guy come to the range with a three hundred and fifty pound ultramodern scoped crossbow .

He could not hit the broad side of a barn with it . About twelve pounds of ungainly stock with a bow that made a pretty good sail at the end of it .
Thirty yards away he was two feet off with it . I asked him if it was sighted in .
A curt yes was the only reply . I knew if I checked it over I could get him on the paper instead of breaking a twenty dollar arrow with every third shot .

He also shot from behind the firing line so that he could rest it on the bow rack instead of trying to support the bow . Prang said mr. carbon arrow as it smacked into the target frame .

I stopped him from shooting from an unsafe position . He blew about eighty bucks worth of arrows and took his crossbow home .

It may be a bow . It also has some mechanisms in common with firearms . When it is set down it can be cocked and loaded with a gentle touch on the trigger sending an arrow just about anywhere . To me firearm training should be mandatory .

This guy had it cocked lying down with the arrow out of the groove but still in line with the string . This was his idea of safe .

While he was the biggest fiasco there were two more crossbows on the same day . One guy had no idea what to do and destroyed the serving on his string by not lubricating the rail it slides along .

The other guy knew what he was doing by comparison yet he too had it cocked and loaded with the arrow off to the side but still in line with the string .

I do think that this is the new bow . I just don,t know where the bow is going .
 
Sounds like the latest installment of "progress". Just because it's shiny new doesn't mean it's better. Some things come only with experience, and there's probably a few guys with 70 lb recurves that will hunt better than these guys with the latest and greatest! Hopefully nobody gets hurt on the learning curve. :(
 
Crossbows are interesting, but to me it's not archery. It's like a gun, but it's not a gun, it shoots darts but it's not a bow. It's a slow weapon.
 
Crossbows are fun, but as said, don't equate to the challenge and sport of what I call archery.

Just like the firing range. There is always some yahoo who has no clue what he has or how to use it. Everybody is clueless at some time in their life, but that's why you read up and ask questions.

Some of my best snags have been made at the range, getting a great deal on a "junk" gun that doesn't seem to work very well for the yahoo holding it.

I should be ashamed of myself. :(;)

Norm
 
Norm , I don,t see any shame in it . Free enterprise and all that . You are also taking a weapon away from someone who doesn,t want to learn . (I am so good at situational ethics . ) L:O:L

There is another observation I made . Compound bow hunters (not archers) are much more likely to practice just to hunt . I have seen them shoot as little as a half hour sighting their trusty machine/bow .

The opposite end are the trad archers who must shoot fairly constantly to maintain a physique and eye . I tend to think we enjoy shooting more as well .

The furtherance of these two observations may be the crossbow shooters . Given their due they feel like they are playing with a new toy . I just hope it doesn,t take a serious accident to wake them to reality .
 
Crossbows are a boon to folks who want to get in on archery season, but have physical disabilities that prevent them shooting a conventional bow. As for me, I don't like crossbows and won't have anything to do with them. To shoot well with a crossbow, one need only be technically proficient. To shoot well with a good English long bow, an archer must be mentally, physically, and some would even say spiritually, proficient. ;)

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Sarge
 

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I readily admit that I am not an archer. I am a bowhunter. I have limited experience with crossbows but do not currently own one. These are some of my thoughts on crossbows as they relate to hunting: Compared to firearms they are definitely "primitve arms" and thus deserve extended seasons. i.e. vertical bows and muzzleloader. Despite their drastically increased draw weight they are still limited to under (usually well under) 50 yards. Again, similar to the vertical bows and traditional muzzleloaders. (I'm not going to touch trad. vs. mod. smokepoles here). They are slower to operate, require more movement to reload, and are much noisier than vertical bows, be they long, straight, recurve, or compound. This is offset by easier aiming and the ability to remain at draw longer, although this is up for debate with some of the stocks out there.

Safety: Safety with any weapon is a training issue. All of the mentioned are equal here IMO. In closing, bowhunters should have great latitude in their choice of implement. The criteria should only be whether game can be harvested in a safe and ethical manner. Long bows, recurves, compounds, and crossbows are all branches of the same tree.

I realize that doesn't touch on "Are crossbowmen archers?" I ain't going there.

P.S. As an historical footnote. In days of old, archers were raised from a very early age and demanded a nice salary for there training and ability. Similar to craftsmen. Crossbowmen were usually temporarily drafted from the peasant classes during times of turmoil.
 
Eyegor said:
P.S. As an historical footnote. In days of old, archers were raised from a very early age and demanded a nice salary for there training and ability. Similar to craftsmen. Crossbowmen were usually temporarily drafted from the peasant classes during times of turmoil.
Click to expand...

Unless you count the general disdain of archery altogether by the 15th century French, a fact that led them to chiefly employ Genoese mercenaries for crossbowmen during the 100 Years War. So not all were peasants, many who wielded crossbows in the middle ages were in fact, professional soldiers.

Sarge
 
I have hunted with bow and gun and my pops went with crossbow, bow, and gun. I think crossbows should be allowed in with bow season because of the effective range of the weapon.

I mean what's the purpose of BOW only season??? You can hunt with a bow during gun season, but not with a gun during bow season. What's the point?? Point is to me... so BOW hunters stalk their prey. They don't just sit in a tree and hope they picked a good spot. Not too many gun hunters that I know do that.

Why stalk??? Because the EFFECTIVE range that an animal can come into with a GUN is far superior to that of what you can reach with a bow. That said the effective range of a crossbow is similar to that of a bow. Therefore there would be closer ranges to achieve and henceforth more "stalking" to be done for most folks. I think mixing HUMAN movement in the brush with a BOW during gun season isn't a very wise idea. Now I've hunted my whole life, and I've always been trained to know not only where my bullet is going and what it's intended target is... but also to know what lies in front of, behind and all around chosen target just to make sure the path is clear.

I am from a land where a lot of "tourists" come into town and shoot into the "brush" at the slightest movement. NOT something I'd like a bow hunter to have to learn the hard way.

For all intensive purposes though a BOW is just as deadly as a CROSSBOW which is just as deadly as a PISTOL which is just as deadly as a LONG GUN. IT's all a matter of who's hands are holding them.

I think though they should be allowed to go with a crossbow hunting during bow season.

My .02

DM
 
Sarge, great history lesson! On your other point, I have a friend who is a wheelchair bound parapalegic. The only thing he can shoot is one of those pistol size crossbows. He shoots only at cardboard boxes.

I don't think crossbows fall into the realm of archery. On the other hand, they are powerful and accurate and I don't see why someone shouldn't hunt deer with them.
 
By the way Sarge, not to get off the topic too much, but I think the disdain of the French for archery led to their disaster at Agincourt (for the rest of you, do a google search on Agincourt, it's interesting - also the French threatened to cut off the fingers of English archers - guess which finger? ;)
 
I want one of these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalest

Crossbow hunting is prohibited in WA state for those without disabilities, but that's not what I'd use it for. I'm actually not sure what I'd use it for at all as the area seems to be lacking in heavy cavalry and fortifications, but what I want and what I need are often two very different things. :)
 
Coldwood said:
By the way Sarge, not to get off the topic too much, but I think the disdain of the French for archery led to their disaster at Agincourt (for the rest of you, do a google search on Agincourt, it's interesting - also the French threatened to cut off the fingers of English archers - guess which finger? ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying my statement. I had forgotten Agincourt and the mercs. Sorry for the incomplete info.
 
They now allow crossbows in Fla., but for use in gun season, not archery season. Which is fair, to me. ;) Not goin' there either.

Don't want a crossbow. Or an arbalest. But I WILL have a ballista one day. Yes, I will. Muahahahahaha!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista


Mike
 
Gentleman We are all or most of us doing something here . We set a specific hypothetical scenario . We fill in the scenario with a few facts that suit us and say :hey , in my opinion this is the truth .

Hypotheses are great , to an extent . I leave them up to the experts . Those in control of hunting seasons and laws in general . ( could we please not get into whether this is a good idea or not ?

I have presented the facts of all the crossbows that have come to the range this year . All of these were one week before hunting season .

Right now all niceties aside , I am trying not to get shot . Literally !
An hour before dark Mr. I,m only going to take a few shots so I don,t have to pay five bucks comes along . Modern crossbow , red dot scope , twenty dollar carbon arrows tipped with thunderhead broadheads . These things will go through both walls of a steel fridge . I know I,ve done it .

I shoot my arrows and look across . Mr. Elcheapo has no arrow on his bow , it is uncocked . I tell him I am going to retrieve my arrows . I get them and turn to go back . He is standing there on the firing line with it cocked and loaded , aimed downrange .

I asked Mr. Jacka$$ what the flying fliipping duck he thought he was doing .
: Oh don,t worry the safety is on . :

I have had arms aimed in my general direction twice . While this wasn't quite as big a gulp as that it wasn't far off the mark .

I am not employed as a range officer . I do have the qualifications , but thats not germain to this issue . These people have had no training as far as what the rules are concerning a loaded , cocked and trigger fired weapon .

The fact that the mode of impetus for this weapon is a bow or its rate of fire are also not germain to this issue . It would only take one arrow to injure me .
Right now if they already have their archery license they can go buy a crossbow and its :a,hunting we will go .: They must receive proper training .
 
I have asked the rangemaster at Laguna Seca twice to have people removed from the firing line who repeatedly break 180 with their loaded guns in hand. Just turning around to talk to someone over your shoulder was enough to get you disqualified in the IPSC matches I used to shoot. Holster your weapon and have a seat in the stands thank you very much. Never happened to me thank goodness because I was watching for it.

My favorite such incident was a dingbat 19-20 YO female with a loaded Smith .357 with the hammer back turning completely around 360 degrees, finger on the trigger, while shooters on all sides ducked and bobbed and weaved to try and stay away from the bore. Stupid idiot. On that one no one had to say a thing. The Rangemaster strode over and literally tore it out if her hand with his palm over the hammer, dumped the loads and gave her and her boyfriend one minute to leave the facility. The whole line gave him kudos for that one.

As for the archery purists, I was taught on and love to shoot a recurve, but the first time I shot a compound bow I was blown away. I love the combination of power and ease of draw, but understand the purity and fascination and discipline of shooting a traditional bow. I need to learn more about both. Right now I just have a couple of 35 pound fiberglass bows to play with that were given to me years ago by a friend.

Norm
 
Hey Novadak, check out the book The Book of The Crossbow, by Ralph Payne Gallwey. It's a Dover edition so quite cheap. Great history of crossbows and at the back plans for your very own Trebuchet.

Lagarto.
 
Norm , I took I:P:S:C: as a favour to a friend . I always thought it was a good idea . I just had other priorities for my money . It was very interesting to have the shoe on the other foot so to speak .

It is a whole different level of discipline to be responsible for a holster drawn weapon .

I have no problem with most compound bow shooters . It is the disassociation with their bows that irks me . I think of a compound bow as a bow that would shoot very poorly if not for all the machines bolted on to make it shoot better .

Just have the two limbs and riser with a string strung between the two and what would happen ? Add the pulleys/cams/thingamabobs on the end and you might get it on the paper . Add a front sight . Man thats better . Rear sight (hey buddy I just got a Robin Hood) Stabiliser , vibration dampener , string silencer , top grade arrow rest and just for the kicker a trigger release which completely removes one of the archers hands from actually touching the bow .

I talk to most of them and even the best have no feel for their bow . They never speak of their bow . They most often speak of how this trigger release or that arrow rest is easy to tune .

To me there is a communion between Archer , Bow and Arrow . I could never hit the target with a few ounces of wood and vegetation otherwise .
 
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