Crucible CPM154...still having problems with "trashy" steel

G

godogs57

Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
795
I've about had it with Crucible. This is happening in every batch of CPM154 I've ever gotten from them. Some batches worse than others. Put the final polish on the blades and voila, inclusions pop out everywhere, unseen until I hit the buffer. I hollow ground my blades and the inclusions are deep in the hollow grind...this is not surface "mill scale"! I just finished up four blades and three of them came out like CRAP. Its either half inch long horizontal "scratches" parallel to the cutting edge (look for the world like 120 grit scratches, just horizontal) or just a hundred or so little "buggers" that are as big as a grit of sand popping up everywhere.

I'm sick of this. And to think I switched to 154 about 20 years ago because ATS-34 was trashy....

The thing that lights up my Christmas tree is that you don't discover this until you have hours and hours invested in that blade.

I love the steel and its inherent qualities, but I can't just make "satin" finish knives forever...

Wish Crucible could get their act together....
 
Who are you purchasing your steel from because I have never heard of 154CM, CPM154, ATS-34, or RWL-34 referred to as trash/garbage.
 
godogs57 said:
I've about had it with Crucible. This is happening in every batch of CPM154 I've ever gotten from them. Some batches worse than others. Put the final polish on the blades and voila, inclusions pop out everywhere, unseen until I hit the buffer. I hollow ground my blades and the inclusions are deep in the hollow grind...this is not surface "mill scale"! I just finished up four blades and three of them came out like CRAP. Its either half inch long horizontal "scratches" parallel to the cutting edge (look for the world like 120 grit scratches, just horizontal) or just a hundred or so little "buggers" that are as big as a grit of sand popping up everywhere.

I'm sick of this. And to think I switched to 154 about 20 years ago because ATS-34 was trashy....

The thing that lights up my Christmas tree is that you don't discover this until you have hours and hours invested in that blade.

I love the steel and its inherent qualities, but I can't just make "satin" finish knives forever...

Wish Crucible could get their act together....
Click to expand...

I’ve never heard of the issue in recent times. Apparently some of their early 154cm had issues.

If you love the steel try and get your hands on some RWL-34 which is a powdered 154cm from a european steel manufacturer.
 
I have bought lots of CPM 154 steel from Aldo and Pops, and have never had a problem with it.
 
I only buy my Steels from thenewjerseysteelbaron.com he tests all of his Steels or I buy direct from Crucible... I have seen a Carbide clump or two in CPM154 “I think that’s what I’m seeing?” but nothing like you are describing.
 
I was at a knife show last year and 2 separate knife makers showed me knives with the exact same problem. They had beautiful knives with an occlusion right in the hollow grind that did not show until the finishing stages.

Pretty sad to see that.
 
I have bought a lot of CPM 154 from Pop's and have never seen any inclusions. I make 90% of my knives from it. Larry
 
I do the ht. 1950 for 30 minutes. Aluminum plate quench. Rockwell @ 63. Temper 3X @ 375. Final Rockwell @ 60-60.5
 
LARRYZ10 said:
I have bought a lot of CPM 154 from Pop's and have never seen any inclusions. I make 90% of my knives from it. Larry
Click to expand...

I buy all mine from Pops as well. The only reason I say that is he obviously has no control over the product. Great guy to deal with.
 
have seen it in have seen it in other CPM steels and had a bad heat of XHP once many years ago. i always track the heat numbers that way i know if a batch is problematic. having some issues with some s35v this week hope it didnt hurt to much of the sheet time will tell as i work down the eblanks for another builder
 
godogs57 said:
I've about had it with Crucible. This is happening in every batch of CPM154 I've ever gotten from them. Some batches worse than others. Put the final polish on the blades and voila, inclusions pop out everywhere, unseen until I hit the buffer. I hollow ground my blades and the inclusions are deep in the hollow grind...this is not surface "mill scale"! I just finished up four blades and three of them came out like CRAP. Its either half inch long horizontal "scratches" parallel to the cutting edge (look for the world like 120 grit scratches, just horizontal) or just a hundred or so little "buggers" that are as big as a grit of sand popping up everywhere.

I'm sick of this. And to think I switched to 154 about 20 years ago because ATS-34 was trashy....

The thing that lights up my Christmas tree is that you don't discover this until you have hours and hours invested in that blade.

I love the steel and its inherent qualities, but I can't just make "satin" finish knives forever...

Wish Crucible could get their act together....
Click to expand...
To OP....I'm from Niagara Specialty Metals and we roll all the Crucible Products into the sheet for the knife makers. Please give us a call (1-800-424-0048) and let us know what we can do to make this right by you. If you can spare a blade we would love to send to the lab and find out what the problem is--we cannot fix the problem without sending to the Lab and getting to the bottom of what the problem is.
 
Early on there were problems for Crucible and similar steels . I have a knife that is advertised as one but marked as the other ! ! Curious , I asked and was told they used the one that at the time was the better quality ! Ha, HA . Both then got things straightened out . Ain't quality wonderful...Maybe you got some of the early batches ?
 
Like Frank I'm very curious ! The metallurgist in me wants to know .
 
bravo frank cox ! yes please send one to the lab so we can be sure if its the metal or your heat treat :rolleyes:
 
I second sending it to Frank. I am sure he will find the issue and make it right with you. I have never had bad relations with Crucible.

Even though I am not a big purchaser compared to their industrial customers, their rep used to drop by once or twice a year to say hello. He/she always left some goodies. If I had a question they couldn't answer they had the tech guys find out.

That said, I have had an issue that I though was bad steel and it turned out to be my fault for contaminating stainless blades with carbon steel during grinding. Like your issue, it didn't shop up until later in the finishing.
 
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