Crysolon Pike Vs. DMT XXC

BJE

BJE

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Apr 12, 2006
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Out of those two, which should remove steel the fastest? I have used DMT products before and I havn't been that impressed, they wore out too quickly. I sharpen several knives a day and stones don't last that long around me. I also like to reprofile any new knife I get and I use the coarse Norton Crysolon Pike stone for that. It works well, but it still takes longer than I want it to. What do the facts and numbers say, which should remove metal the fastest, and is it a signifigant amount, enough to justify the money for a diamond bench stone? I don't have any super hard steels like ZDP-189 or anything, only one Fallkniven U2 in SGPS, but I already took care of that. I mostly sharpen 154cm, VG-10, 420 HC, and some S30V.
 
D8XX. I have both and the D8XX has thinned out large knives and small knives several hundreds times over in the past two years (as well as flatten waterstones and very roughly facet semi-precious stones) and it's still going strong. I know folks who've worn theres out, but suspect they use less pressure than me (I'm still recovering from nasty tendon fun experienced this past Winter from bearing down on the D8XX too hard, too often).

Even better; and I stole this idea from ksskss; is to glue part of a Norzon zirconium alumina sanding belt to a flat surface and get an overly aggressive benchstone for less than $10.
 
thombrogan said:
Even better; and I stole this idea from ksskss; is to glue part of a Norzon zirconium alumina sanding belt to a flat surface and get an overly aggressive benchstone for less than $10.
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Cool idea. :thumbup:
I've got plenty of fine and extra fine stones, but I'm convinced that 80% of sharp comes from using coarse ones.
 
thombrogan said:
...Even better; and I stole this idea from ksskss; is to glue part of a Norzon zirconium alumina sanding belt to a flat surface and get an overly aggressive benchstone for less than $10.
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What adhesive do you prefer for gluing the sanding belt?
 
Where might I locate one of these XX coarse stones, I can only seem to find the extra coarse? What is a good price for one?
 
Also consider going to a skate shop (Dick's Sporting Goods might also carry it) and buy griptape. A 35 inch long sheet costs a few dollars. Cut it into sections, peel the backing and stick it to blocks of wood. Works great for reprofiling, is very cheap (You can buy it by the roll) and no messing with glue or staples.

I'm also interested in a good place to find the DMT XX Coarse stone.
 
thombrogan said:
...The odd thing is that bearing down on them makes them last longer.
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thombrogan--- Most of the advice I have read advised just the opposite, using light pressure and "letting the diamonds do the work". Why do you say "bearing down" is the way to go?
 
The only one I saw on allprotools was the extra coarse and the other link took me to a can of paint that changed colors.
 
Zeasor said:
thombrogan--- Most of the advice I have read advised just the opposite, using light pressure and "letting the diamonds do the work". Why do you say "bearing down" is the way to go?
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I have heard of this also. The reasoning behind it is that if you push too hard, you will embed the diamond in the steel and you could rip them out of the base they are bonded to. I also heard using knives with soft steel has the same effect.
 
All of the "common" knowledge and "wisdom" about diamond stones wearing out with high pressure has proven to be dead wrong for me and Thom with the D8XX. I followed Thom's advice and have used massive pressure with my D8XX for A LOT of high hardness, high carbide rebevels and the stone still cuts like a champ after well over a year. It shows no signs of wearing out. Then there are reports from others, who I believe said that they used less pressure with the D8XX, having them wear out fast. Don't ask me why, but experience to me is proving opposite to the conventional "wisdom" of using light pressure with the D8XX.
 
Zeasor said:
thombrogan--- Most of the advice I have read advised just the opposite, using light pressure and "letting the diamonds do the work". Why do you say "bearing down" is the way to go?
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With a 120 grit stone, there should just be stock removal/grinding/thinning, not forming and honing the edge. In such cases, more pressure equals faster work. When honing with a finer grit, using more pressure is likely to do bad things to the edge. DMT and EZ-Lap use very strongly bound diamonds these days. Once the excess diamonds stuck on top of the bound diamonds are worn away, the hones generally cut at a constant speed (until they clog with swarf and seem like they're worn out).
 
gunmike1---
thombrogan---

Thanks for the info. More pressure will cetainly shorten time spent on the coarser stones. I assume "bearing down" is also safe for DMT's Diasharp XC?
 
Don't have an XC (you show-off! :grumpy:;) ), but it works on the D8C, D8F, and D8E as well (and gouges the D8EE :( ), only the D8F and D8E load up if used without a liquid to carry away the swarf. Guessing the XC Dia-Sharp will be safe, too.
 
thombrogan said:
(I'm still recovering from nasty tendon fun experienced this past Winter from bearing down on the D8XX too hard, too often).
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Thom,
I do a lot of sharpening and get into trouble from time to time ( a HUGE liability), depending on the grit, the pressure and the type of knife.

Do you have any suggestions to avoid aggravating things or to help heal problems?

Sorry OP, if this is only tangentially related, though it may not seem so once you start doing a lot of sharpening.:)
 
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thombrogan--- Thanks for your help. :thumbup: It sounds like you have more diamonds than Liberace. :D I am curious. You have many stones and mucho experience on stones. Incurring tendon damage on a XXC ain't from casual weekend sharpening (unless you spend the WHOLE weekend). Are you a sharpener for hire? Do you chop bricks with your knives? Have you been turning cleavers into boning knives? Is it OCD? :D Pardon me if my question is toooo personal :foot: but I wanna know. :confused:
 
I'd been using the D8XX for about a year and one half before it happened, so it wasn't entirely from sharpening. The best way I've found for avoiding using too much pressure (for one's joints or one's knives) is to use an extremely aggressive hone for the shaping part (I use a 36 grit Norzon belt glued to a block - I need an extra step, though, as 36 grits to the 120 grit D8XX is too large of a jump :o ).
 
BJE said:
...I sharpen several knives a day and stones don't last that long around me...
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Buy a grinder! All this stones not for industrial sharpening. I have D8XX and use it a lot as I think, but several reprofiling a day - this is job for belt grinder.

You may confuse people saying that DMT worn out really fast - for last 6 months I reprofile 44 times with D8XX, but in your case it will be three weeks only if you do only two knife a day.

You should ask on knifemaker's forum or something.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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