CS Trailmaster Handle Removal?

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Nov 8, 2005
Messages
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I'd like to remove the Kraton handle from my Cold Steel Trailmaster and replace it with paracord. I'm planning to cut the handle off with a knife, which seems the most logical and straightforward way to do it, but I don't know what's underneath (besides the tang) and don't want any problems.

Has anyone done this before and can tell me what to expect? Other advice, suggestions, etc.?

Thanks.........
 
I'd like to do the same with an SRK. I am thinking a torch while keeping the blade submerged in water--though this could be stinky and messy. As for the paracord, you may find they have not left you with enough of a tang to do it. I plan to grind the blade of mine higher and thinner (it's a bit of a crowbar now) and then fit a proper guard (probably 416 stainless) and handle (wood or micarta).

John
 
Thanks for the link hatchetjack.

The rubber handle does seem to be a major fault in the TrailMaster design.
 
John Frankl and hatchetjack--

Thank you both for your advice. You saved me from an expensive mistake. I was only thinking about the length of the tang and forgot that the width is just as important when wrapping with paracord.

I much prefer a shock-absorbing handle to wood, micarta, plastic, etc., especially on a big chopping knife, so I'll just leave it like it is even though I don't like the shape or patterning of the handle.

John Frankl, good luck with your project.

Thanks again!
 
You're welcome!

I have been wanting to send my Trailmaster to Jay Maines at Sunrise for some time for a re-handle. I find the stock handle a little small but it works. I've since gone to Ranger Knives for my big hard use blades.
 
hatchetjack--

I am impressed with the work shown on the Sunrise website.

I've heard a lot of positive things about Ranger knives but it looks like the big ones only come with micarta handles, which isn't my first choice for hard wilderness use, especially chopping. For a smaller knife, the Shiv looks good. I've become a fan of Swamp Rat knives but they are currently undergoing an extensive product change so not much available right now.
 
You just might be able to make a better handle by dipping the stick tang repeatedly in liquid vinyl, then wrapping it. I've done that with a few tools. :)
 
Mtn Hwk-

Justin at Ranger knives will change the handle material if you wish. Give him a call or e-mail.

Ranger's customer service is what keeps us going back for more.

I usually have a pair of calfskin gloves with me so it helps absorb the vibration of the micarta.

I think the big plus with Ranger is value. A flat grind RD9 will only set you back a bit over a hundred bucks and that comes with a solid warranty against darn near anything. Another bonuis that you can make or add your own special features and you'll be suprised at how reasonable and quick your blade will get back to you.
rd9016.jpg
 
I've cut the rubber handles off of both the Trailmasters(rubber and stag) as well as the Recon Scout. The rubber handled versions have a nice, thick and long tang underneath, but the stag Trailmaster doesn't. It has a much shorter tang, connected to the buttcap by some kind of chain. By the way, the brass guard simply comes off with a light hammer tap, since it's not soldered on. All these blades I'm talking about are still in the unfinished stages, as I'm a lazy, procrastinating bastid. ;) :)
 
I thought the rubber and stag trailmasters were the same except for the handle material.
Is that short tang and chain thing a poor and flimsy method, or am I just seeing it from an ignorant point of view regarding knife construction?
 
My guess is, because of the curvage of some of the stag pieces, they couldn't go with the standard, straight and longer tang. But, who knows?
 
Sword and Shield--

Thanks for the idea! I never thought about that but it would be worth a try, as long as it could handle the repeated shocks of hard chopping.

hatchetjack--

Thanks for your info, esp. about the handle material. I'll give Justin a call, as you suggested. The prices seem very good for such high-quality knives. You have a great-looking knife!

Danbo--

Thanks for your post. I think you're the only person I've run across who has actually cut the handles off. In your opinion, do you think the Kraton-handle tang is long, wide, and thick enough to be wrapped with paracord? I really do not like the Trailmaster handle, although it's ok on the smaller knives. Chopping is a lot better with gloves but I don't always carry them. Plus, I've never wrapped a tang with paracord and would like to give it a try. I'd leave the brass guard on for safety. Thanks again!
 
Mtn Hawk said:
Sword and Shield--

Thanks for the idea! I never thought about that but it would be worth a try, as long as it could handle the repeated shocks of hard chopping.

Well, as I see it, my hammers are all handled in vinyl anyway, and the vinyl stays tight. :) Worth a try, and easy to remove if needed.
 
No. The tang is nice and thick and long, but not wide enough to wrap, unless you wrap it multiple times(which would look retarded, IMO).
 
You can still do a nice paracord wrap project!

Use mortise-tang construction with some wood. Basically, you take some wood (I suggest basswood or poplar, easy to work but great for the project and will have an inherent bit of squishyness to it) and then trace the outline of the tang on the insides of 2 flat scale pieces. Then route out the marked area to a depth half of the thickness of the knife tang in each piece. Use a knife or a chisel or some kind of gauge to work the wood. You don't need anything fancy.

With these channels carved, you should now be able to make a sandwich with the wood scales and the knife tang inside. If done right (tight, that is!) the knife tang should be gripped well by the wood alone when holding the scales and tang sandwich. With that done, you can shape the outsides how you want. Sand, saw, carve, or whatever you need to do to thin out the handles and prepare them for cordwrapping. The wood and cord will make a nice knife handle!

OOPS! I forgot to add that you should pin and epoxy that handle too! My post sounded like you just add the woond and wrap! I wouldn't recommend that; save it for Japanese blades :)
 
Mike Turber cut the handle off a CS Trailmaster as part of his testing of it vs a Busse Basic 9. In his picture below, the TM tang is on the right and the BB9 is on the left. Note the tip of each blade broken off in earlier testing laying on the blades.

busse-tm-tangs.jpg
 
RokJok: If you have a link to that test would you please post it? Thanks
 
Blue Sky, Mike Turber's test of the Cold Steel Trailmaster vs the Busse Basic 9 doesn't seem to exist online any more. It was originally here on Bladeforums. Below is the text of that testing that I archived. Due to BFC size limitations I will have to make multiple posts of it.

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Cold Steel Trail Master -vs- Busse Basic #9 By Mike Turber

Building brand recognition is a formidable task regardless of which industry you’re in. In the knife industry it is an even tougher task to differentiate yourself from the rest of the pack for the simple reason that all knives are basically the same, especially fixed blades. So rather than be a "Me Too" company, several manufacturers have devoted much of their resources to developing new materials to offer the eager knife buying public.
To develop a proprietary material is very costly, so when you do make something unique, new and different you naturally want to tell the world and maybe even brag a bit. Over the last few years we have witnessed two manufacturers taking an approach to marketing which some would call "hype". At first glance the word "hype" appears to be a negative word and in some minds it means to "stretch the truth". This is not really the case as the word "hype", according to webster, means "to promote or publicize extravagantly".

Both Cold Steel and Busse have developed their own unique steel and both have hyped their lines to promote their new steels.

Cold Steel developed what is now known as Carbon V®. Over the years the steel has gone through several changes and now it is, in fact, a new proprietary steel. In fact to get this new steel, Cold Steel must order a minimum of 60,000 pounds! Cold Steel specifies the microstructure of the steel before it leaves the mill. They actually have an employee, a metallurgist, on premises to inspect the steel at virtually every step in the manufacturing process. This is very important because Cold Steel does not actually build the knives in their California facilities. The final result is a wonderful knife with impressive edge hold capabilities, not to mention each Cold Steel knife I have ever personally inspected is hair popping sharp!

Busse Combat Knives has also developed a new proprietary steel called "INFI". Until recently the magic property of the steel was only known to one person outside of Busse’s domain, me. I held this secret in strict confidence for nearly 2 years. One of the magic ingredients to "INFI" is Nitrogen and this was revealed in a thread at BladeForums in which a member actually conducted a radioactive isotope spectral analysis of Busse’s steel. But how does Jerry get it in there and more importantly keep it in there? Regardless of how it is made, the real question is how does it perform?
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If you have been following the ads by both makers, over the years it should be very apparent that each makes claims that their knife is the best on the market. Until now it could have been argued that comparing a Busse to the Cold Steel line was probably not fair, especially at the price points the Busse line was sold at. Not to mention, until now, the Busse line was considered a custom/handmade piece.

Enter the Busse basic line.

The Basic line by Busse is their first attempt at marketing a factory/production knife. It uses a modifed version of their now famous INFI steel. Basically the modified version of INFI uses less Cobalt which affects it’s performance nominally according to Busse. The Basic line was introduced to compete in the price point where most high end factory fixed blades reside. That category has been dominated by Cold Steel for many years.

Cold Steel’s flagship model fixed blade is the Trail Master in Carbon V. Cold Steel claims their CV Trail Master will out perform any knife they know of by a wide margin. The text below is quoted directly from Cold Steel.

"Why buy a Trail Master®? That's simple. Because it is, without a doubt, the most knife for the money ever built since the dawn of time. In terms of sharpness, edge holding, strength and sheer cutting power, it will outperform, by a very wide margin, any factory made knife we know of and 99% of all hand forged knives as well.

We know it may sound like we are going out on a limb with this statement, but unlike our competitors, we can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that every claim we have made for the Trail Master® since its introduction is true, not hype."

Well that is a very profound claim. Their ads also claim that their knife is "Indestructible". I remember when I was younger getting those "Indestructible" combs. Man I loved breaking those.

Busse also makes some very profound claims about the performance of their knives made from INFI. On their web site they show a comparison test with an "Unnamed" manufacturer, their closest competitor. Hummm….. Who could this be?

Well we can all pretty much take a calculated and educated guess as to who that company is. The Busse charts show their knife winning by very wide margins. The Cold Steel proof video shows their knives doing some incredible feats. Busse shows a similar video at shows with their knife duplicating some of the tests shown in the Cold Steel video.
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For now we will move past the obvious hype from both manufacturers and get down to business.

Let me preface this test, as I did with the 7" tests, by saying that many considerations must be taken into account when you either buy a knife or subsequently test one. The main focus of this test is to determine the overall quality and general cutting ability of the knives tested herein. No matter what the results are of this test, it will be argued that a knife was not designed for the specific test in which it was tested.

Our test will focus on the claims made by both manufacturers. I will duplicate several of the tests and I will add a few of my own. Our test will emphasize the edge holding ability of both knives and for comparison reasons we will be testing several other knives at the same time. The results for the other knives in this test will be placed in the tables at the end of this section. This will be a true head to head competition to show, who has in fact, the best knife overall and the best knife for the money.

Included in the test results soon will be:

UC-934 Special Ops Jungle Machete designed by George Lainhart, built by Camillus and sold by United Cutlery.
UC-RB1 Rambo First Blood knife made in Taiwan.
Mat Lamey handmade bowie style blade.
Adam Hymas handmade bowie style blade.
Rob Simonich handmade bowie style blade.
First impressions:

When you pick up the Trail Master you immediately notice it is one thick piece of steel. Using 5/16" stock and weighing nearly a pound, this is a monster knife. Cold Steel claims the knife weighs 16.7 oz. Our sample weighed in at 15.728 oz. The blade is flat ground with a standard V shaped edge. The handle material is made of Kraton and uses a classic checkered pattern that yields an excellent grip. There is a virgin brass guard to help keep your fingers from slipping down onto the blade. The blade also has a false top edge making it less "tip heavy" for better control. The balance point is right on the choil area which makes this knife extremely agile in various situations. The Trail Master comes with a top grain leather sheath, which in my opinion is not up to par for a knife in this class.

When you first pick up the Basic #9, you notice the extremely comfortable grip. Made of Resiprene "C", it is virtually impervious to most all chemical agents including Deet, which has been known to eat Kraton. The Busse weighs in at 15.136 oz. A lightweight compared to the Trail Master but it still has enough "beef" to get the job done. The balance on the Basic #9 is nearly a full inch ahead of the choil which makes it a bit "tip heavy" but it should help it’s performance in the chopping area. The ergonomically shaped handle has a large index finger groove area which acts as an effective guard. The edge uses a unique geometry only found on the Busse knives. It features a convex edge on one side and a nearly flat edge on the other. This combines the old Samurai convex style edge known for strength and edge holding with a semi flat edge for ease of sharpening and great slicing ability. The Basic #9 comes with a Kydex sheath which is very well made and makes a perfect carry solution for a knife this size. There are plans to offer left handed sheaths and possibly sheaths made of different materials. Stay tuned to our Blade Bytes section for more info as it becomes available
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Now on to the test!

Our first test was the board chop test. For this test I used 24" long 2x4s made of spruce. I used spruce because it is a harder wood and I don’t feel like chopping through 14 boards to prove a point which can be proven in fewer boards. Yes I am lazy! I performed the first board chop test in Orlando with BFC member Nam Vo present. Also present were both of our better halves, Lori and Janet. We did the test right on his balcony so we would not freak out the neighbors nearby.

The Trail Master was first to chop. Chopping with the Trail Master was fairly easy. The weight of the knife (15.728oz) means I did not have to swing with nearly as much force as I had to in the 7" test using the Recon Scout. After about 60 cuts, I was halfway through the board. I turned the board over and 65 cuts later I chopped through the 2x4. The more I chopped the more I realized I did not like the Kraton handle. It was fairly comfortable at the start, but towards the end I noticed my grip was too tight and the handle causes fatigue. But the result was a 2x4 in ruins and chips everywhere!

After a few minutes rest, I picked up the Busse and started chopping. The first thing you notice is the completely different approach to grips each maker uses. The Busse is much more comfortable and probably allows for a more efficient chop. After about 50 cuts I was ready to turn the board over. 61 cuts later the board was done. The Busse is more tip heavy which makes it a very efficient chopper. Combine that with the more comfortable grip and the Busse edges out the Cold Steel in this test.

After I was done chopping, I set up another board for Nam to give it a try. I had him make 10 quick heavy chops with the Trail Master and then I quickly switched knives and put the Busse in his hand. He repeated with 10 more chops and I switched them again several times. His first reaction was how much more comfortable the Busse was and we both agreed that the Busse is the better chopper.

I repeated the above tests again with Spark back in Jacksonville. This time I was able to chop through the 2x4 in only 67 cuts with the Busse compared to 112 with the Trail Master. I am not sure why such a big difference. If anything I would of thought the second test would yield higher chop numbers but it did not. Maybe I ate my Wheaties that morning.

I did the same switching out process with Spark as I had done with Nam. The result was the same. The Busse is a better chopper and feels better while doing it.
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While still in Orlando Nam and I performed a tip test. Each knife was stabbed and/or hammered into a spruce board up to nearly ¾" from the tip. We would then push the handle over until the blade broke out of the board. The Trail Master would bend slightly in this test but it returned to true and made a clean exit from the board. The Busse, with it’s thicker edge geometry and broader tip point, would simply slide it’s way out of the board with no bending at all. So no real winner or loser here and any speculation would be my interpretation of the results. The Trail Master has better penetration due to it’s slimmer profile tip. The Busse will hold more weight closer to the tip if that is an important consideration.

The next test uses an apparatus I came up with to test edge holding. No rocket science here. As you can see by the picture, the apparatus is nothing more that a 45 degree angle edge with a clamp to hold the knife. After clamping down the knife I start cutting into 200lb test cardboard. The apparatus allows me to keep the same edge against the cardboard and make a clean cut. I continue cutting roughly 1 inch strips until the cardboard starts to roll or buckle. I give the knife 2 more chances to complete a good clean cut and after it fails I measure how many linear inches the knife has cut without buckling or rolling the cardboard. I use the measurement for the knife’s score.

The Trail Master was first in this test. Starting a cut with the Trail Master was easier than with the Busse due to the edge geometry. The Trail Master sliced effortless through over 240 inches of cardboard without the first sign of losing it’s edge. At about 250 inches the first buckle occurred and I started again. About 20 inches later I got another buckle and after the last attempt I got a total of over 317 inches of good clean cuts.

The Busse’s edge geometry makes for a tougher starting cut. It is convex on one side and flat on the other. After you get the cut started, the Basic #9’s flat ground left edge makes all further cutting virtually effortless. It was a bit harder to pull through compared to the Trail Master. After 50 inches I got my first buckle. After the second attempt I was not able to buckle any more cardboard and stopped after 600 inches as in the 7" test. After the test neither knife was hair poppin sharp however both would still shave.

Although this is not part of the official test, I feel it is worth mentioning. The cardboard I was using was part of a 38x8x8 box. I used the center part of the box for the test and what was left over was these long 8" wide strips. While holding the side against a table I tried to cut all the way through the 8" section with one stroke. I was able to due this repeatedly with the Busse but the Trail Master’s thicker steel would get wedged in the cardboard on occasion, not allowing a full cut. This of course means nothing but I thought you may want to know.
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The next test is the 48" drop test. From a height of 48" each knife is dropped 3 times onto a poured concrete floor (my warehouse floor). This test proved that both knives have great tip strength as neither knife failed in any way.

The next test is the hemp (manila) rope test. I would not duplicate the wild free hanging rope cut tests you may have seen in Lynn Thompson’s video. The reason is that it can be argued that the technique can be altered to produce desired results. In other words, I could cut with one in a different fashion than the other and the audience would not be able to tell the difference. So the test I have chosen is a simple one that any of you can duplicate.

Here is how it is done.

Lay a 1" piece of hemp rope on top of a 2x4 on the 4" side. Place the blade on top of the hemp rope and using only your upper body strength, push the blade through the hemp. Do this on a marked virgin 1 ½" section of the blade. Then take a towel and wrap the edge of your knife to use as a safe handle. Then, while holding the handle in your strong hand, start cutting.

Count the number of pieces you cut cleanly through. After each 25 cuts, test the edge to see if it still shaves. You can use your arm (be careful) or a sheet of paper. Keep cutting until the knife no longer shaves or it won’t go through the hemp.

During this test it was readily apparent that both knives have exceptional edges. The Busse’s more ergonomic handle made the cutting a bit easier as the handle on the Trail Master would rotate a bit in your hand. The Busse has a flat ground edge on the left side and convex on the right. With me being right handed it made the hemp rope lay over like I was carving a turkey breast. After cutting many feet of rope and seeing no effect on the Busse I stopped. In fact I felt as though I was only polishing the edge. The Trail Master’s edge faired nearly as well. It was hard to tell the difference until after about 100 cuts. The edge started to wear a bit and it was no longer easy to push the blade through. It is hard to tell which knife really won on this test because the handle on the Trail Master was starting to really hurt my hand. The diamond checkered Kraton was creating blisters and I may have very well been using less force at that point.
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After the test were completed, I just started playing with each knife, paying close attention to how they felt while using them.

Below are my overall impressions of each knife.

The Trail Master

Cold Steel has had this model in their line for many years now and it is a proven workhorse. I doubt anyone who has ever purchased a Trail Master felt they did not get a good buy. In fact I have sold many Trail Masters in my day, and my pitch was that it was the best large bowie knife available at nearly any price. It still is! The Trail Master is an incredible cutting machine. After really playing with one for several days I find it has a much better balance that the Busse. It’s tip control was more predictable and if you ever plan on using a bowie as a fighter then you will need to look past the Busse and get a Trail Master. And if you ever plan on throwing your Trail Master you will be pleasantly surprised. The Busse is in no way a thrower.

What I would do is lose the Kraton handle. Under heavy chopping it just plain sucks. Your hand will never forgive you. Unless you have a seriously callused hand you can expect many blisters. A more ergonomic grip would make this knife a much better all around user. The guard needs a radius on the edge as it is a bit sharp, and under heavy use, it can and does bite. If you ever use it as a fighter, and put it in a reverse grip, you will find the guard digging into your forearm. Obviously the Trail Master is not really intended for such use, but a minor change would make a world of difference. The blade is damn near perfect, but I would like a little more "belly" on the end. This would change the balance slightly but the gain in chopping efficiency would be worth it. And lose the leather sheath!

Busse has answered the challenge set forth by Cold Steel. Based on my experience with both knives, I feel the Busse is the better of the two overall. In nearly every test, the Busse edges out the Trail Master by a good margin. Although I know how INFI is made, I am still amazed at how the edge holds up under intense use. Of course it can be argued that Busse’s edge geometry is part of the reason for it lasting longer than the Trail Master. If so my answer to this is simple, change your edge geometry to match the Busse. The handle on the Busse is extremely comfortable. My only complaint is it is a bit thin or small for my taste but I would rather it be on the small side rather than big. Why? In the woods and/or in cold weather you may have gloves on and the smaller size would make for a better fit. The Busse is no fighter so if you plan on using it as a back up fighter, you better plan on hacking, as it’s balance is virtually non-existent. It is a pure chopper and utility all the way.

Sharpening the edge is a bit tricky. I followed the directions included with the knife but I actually had better results sharpening it the old fashion way, on my bench grinder with special wheels. Maybe I did it wrong so don’t take that as true advice. The knife is a bit lighter than the Trail Master but the weight is shifted forward. This makes it a better chopper but the trade off is more "belly" up front so penetration cuts are not as easy. More "belly" up front does make it a good choice for a large back up skinner. Plus the blade is wide enough for you to hold onto near the tip for precision cutting or skinning. The sheath is a Kydex rig which beats the leather sheath from Cold Steel hands down. According to Cold Steel’s web site, the current versions come with a Cordura sheath which obviously does not compare to Kydex either.
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For this part of the test I set up a vise and a backboard with angles drawn to show how far the knives would bend. I marked each blade 1 inch from the tip and clamped the blade into the vise to the mark. After clamping the blade in securely, I pulled on each blade using just hand and arm strength, no pipe for me. For me, this test proves nothing, but for some reason it means something to the manufacturers as they always brag about how far you can bend their knives. I am not sure I want my knife to bend but I sure as hell don't want it to break easy. I weigh about 245lbs, so if it can hold my weight, I am happy. I mounted both knives on a steel rack and both held me just fine. I even bounced a bit on each and could tell very little difference. So if your a rock climber, it would be a safe bet these knives will hold you just fine. Not to mention I doubt very many rock climbers weigh as much as I do.

The first was the Trail Master. I pulled the blade to 10 degrees and let it return to true. It did this just fine. Then I performed the test again this time pulling the blade to a 20 degree bend. Again the Trail Master returned to true. On the third attempt I went for 30 degrees. This time the blade made it but it did not return to full true. I would estimate it had a 3-5 degree bend at that point. This I probably could of bent it the other way to get it back to true but this might have affected the rest of the test so I chose not to.

On the fourth attempt I went for 40 degrees. At about 35 degrees or so the blade snapped. I remembered that in Cold Steel's PROOF video it showed the Trail Master going to 60 degrees. Well I just watched the video again and if you pay close attention they use a 3" pipe to flex the blade. The pipe made it to 60 degrees but if you run a straight line up the spine and handle, you will see the Trail Master in the video was actually at about 35-40 degrees. So if you have the video, please take a look at it and pause it right when the pipe hits 60 degrees. Take a straight edge object and place it on your TV screen and tell me what angle you think the Trail Master actually hit. I also do not understand why the need for the pipe. I found that it was not difficult to break the knife at all. I will be happy to repeat this test at the Blade Show in front of an audience because I know I am going to get some flak for doubting Lynn's video.
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