CS Warrior Katana or Hanwei Raptor series; which is better for backyard cutting?

Joined
Apr 27, 2016
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Hey guys,

I have been looking for a while now for a tough and sturdy katana. I do not really care that much about historical accuracy. Mostly I am looking for a katana that can take a beating and yes, I do realise that everything may break.

So after a while of research I have boiled it down to 2 options, the CS Warrior katana (maybe even the larger "o" version) and the Hanwei Raptor Shobu Zukuri.

My main concerns are fittings and blade material. How will they hold up and how does 5160 compare to 1055?

I belive to understand that Hanwei katanas are more balanced than CS katanas. But even that does not bother me too much. After all, I am used to my good old crow bar which is the CS Grosse Messer.

So, what I am basically asking: Which Katana will be more DURABLE; the Raptor from Hanwei or Cold Steel´s Warrior (O) Katana??
 
if you are truly going to be beating on it and using it to hack up plastic jugs, limbs and other non fleshy type items.... the sword you are looking for is.. price difference is negligible.

Look up youtube videos on it for a good feel of the kind of stuff the ZT guys make....

Might also look at the Condor Tactana... at 129.00 its just almost unbreakable katana shaped fun for the woods and back yard.....





to your original question.... I'd probably take the Cold Steel over the Hanwei... I've not had good luck with the Hanwei's holding up to any actual use.......though admittedly I've never owned a Raptor from them....I guess it COULD be different than the 3 I have... but I'm tired of blowing money on em to find out....
 
The 5160 steel will probably have better edge retention than the Cold Steel sword. Other than thaqt, you are looking at some fairly subjective niggly bits and pieces. If you are considering the O katana, I would just go with it. The O and Chisa actually appeal to me more than the standard CS Warrior. I like the CS fittings more than the Raptors, so that as well subjective.

FWIW, my Hanwei Practical, now well more than a dozen years old, gets played with by many hands. Aside from the point in gravel once (two minute repair) the edge (not 5160) has been fine cutting mostly mats. It had some early abuse sessions with dead blows in insane cardboard tubes but aside from that first year has been primarily an event mat cutter (don't let the messes pile up, bus your bits).
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Small branches of an inch shouldn't be a problem but it is the dead blows, like chopping a log, that breaks down the integrity of traditional katana construction. The blades of both probably long outlasting the tsuka maki and tsuka themselves.


My Practical has now been claimed by someone as her "precious" and I may soon be shopping for something new and for some time have been considering the Ronin line, as silk is standard and even the cheap ones have some thought put into them with a wide range of tsuba.


Cheers

GC
 
i have had 1060 blades take a set the first strike but my 9260 and 5160 blades are right on the money when it comes to straightness and cutting, and yes i second the zombie tools i have their zakasushi great cutter in 5160 steel, i also recommend the cheness tenchi, hanwei renshu both great swords for the money
 
Yeah, seen and heard a lot of good stuff from the ZT blades but it is just a bit too much "fantasy" for me.

Tbh, I am not even that bothered about the edge retention. Im more scared about the blade taking a set.

I will wait and see if anyone else here wants to share their opinion (thanks for those who have already done so) and will then have to make a decision.
 
if you are worried about a set i would go 9260, some of the most resilient silicon spring steels out there and average under 300$ check out the cheness tenchi
 
The alloy has nothing to do with how a sword bends or takes a set. 5160 sword can take a set just as easily as 1050 or 9260 or tamahagane. That is strictly geometry and heat treat.
 
The alloy has nothing to do with how a sword bends or takes a set. 5160 sword can take a set just as easily as 1050 or 9260 or tamahagane. That is strictly geometry and heat treat.

how do you figure? 9260 or 5160 will spring back to true more than a standard mono steel under tension, i do not see how you came to that conclusion
 
It's called metallurgy. How far a steel will bend has nothing to do with the alloy. It is based entirely upon heat treat and geometry. Now the failure point is different upon alloy. I suggest doing a google search on this topic....it is something that many don't grasp. From a swordsmith in Sweden...

When a blade is over stressed it will either bend or break.
At what point this happens will naturally vary.
A thinner blade can be made to flex more and invite over bending: look how far I can make this blade bend!
A thicker blade will be stiffer, and invite a more forceful abuse: look how stiff this blade is, see how much effort I have to use to make it bend even a little!

In use, a forceful blow can shock a blade and cause it to bend or break, even if it is otherwise a good blade.
A blade breaking or taking a set is not always the fault of the design or the maker.
A blow that is delivered out of alignment can be very stressful to the blade.

A well made sword can take a lot of beating, but no sword is unbreakable.
Back in the day, swords were heat treated to bend rather than break. It is better to have a bent blade than a hilt with a short section of blade sticking out of it.
Today we have different steel, different use of our swords and different expectations.
 
from the MASTER, in metallurgy and sword making....Kevin Cashen......

O.K. I hope I got somewhere in the vicinity of what these curves may” look like. All I had in my books were comparison curves for iron or steel of varying carbon contents, not differing heat treatments, so I guessed. Please excuse inaccuracies, this graphic is not meant to represent any actual tests that I have performed not are they expected to be in the proper proportion to each other, but I think we may get the general idea from them. Those with experience with this sort of thing, please excuse any omissions or the minimizing of the dip between the proportional and yield limits that many materials exhibit, I am trying to keep this as simple as possible

This is my version of a compilation of three stress strain curves for the same steel having different heat treatments. The stress strain curve is a graphic representation of the numbers generated in a typical tensile test. In such a test a specimen is locked into a machine that pulls it with great force in opposite directions and measures the amount of that force for a given amount of deformation of the tested material.

There are two types of deformation represented here, elastic (temporary) and plastic (permanent). On the graph there are labeled various points of interest to our conversation.

a. Proportional limit. This is the limit of the range where the amount of load will be directly proportional to the amount of deformation. This also means that the deformation or strain will go way as soon a proportional amount of the load is removed so for our purposes, since in many materials the proportional limit closely coincides with the elastic limit, we will simply designate “a.” as the elastic limit as well.

b. Yield point. For our conversation this simply takes up where the Proportional limit left off, but in many materials there is some funky dips and curves in this area that make it a little more complicated that what my feeble mind wishes to deal with. The Yield point is when the deformation is no longer proportional to the load and will continue to increase even though no more load is applied. If this is hard to imagine in the sense of the tensile test, then think of putting weight on the end of a strip of iron. Eventually there will be enough weight that the iron will bend, and keep bending toward the floor even though no more weight is added; this is the yield point of that piece. Obviously this is no longer elastic deformation since the results are quite permanent, so this is now in the plastic deformation range.

c. Ultimate strength. This is the last straw, so to speak. When the material reaches this point, all it has left to do is failure. In brittle materials fracture occurs at the point of ultimate strength. In ductile materials “c” marks the point where heavy “necking” (not the type that steamed up your car windows in High School ) occurs right before fracture. There will be a drastic reduction in cross-section as large amounts of slip occurs at the point that the piece will come apart. Then next time you break a blade with a softer spine, notice the “dip” in the outside curve right at the point of fracture.

I have also divided the curves into 2 parts, that which falls to the left of the elastic limit being the elastic range, and the area to the right being the plastic range. The area covered in the curve in the plastic range describes the toughness of the material.

The plastic range is the one that is affect by heat treatment. You will notice all the lines to the left are straight, as they are governed by a constant known as Young’s modulus, which I will cover shortly. Since heat treatment affects the brittleness or toughness of the material, it is the plastic range where it is manifested. Hardening the steel pushes the yield point higher and the failure point closer to the yield point (i.e. it doesn’t bend it breaks!). Tempering the steel widens the gap between the yield and failure point and allows for more plastic deformation before failure, but it will take much less to reach the yield point. Like all things in the universe, there is always a trade off, we simply can’t have out metallurgical cake and eat it too.

The area in the elastic range is governed by a principle known as the “modulus of elasticity” or “Young’s Modulus” This modulus involves some heavy numbers and mathematical savvy so it is best simplified for dimwits like myself. For our purposes we can simplify the entire concept by dividing things by 1000 and describing this mess as the 30,000 lbs. of load required to elastically deform .001”. Different materials will have differing modulus values, copper is 15 million (or 15,000 / .001”) lead is only 2,500 /001”. The point of all this is that the modulus of elasticity for steel is 30,000/ .001”, and that is what it is, regardless of heat treatment. It is 30,000/ .001” for fully annealed steel and it is 30,000/ .001” for fully hardened steel. It is 30,000/ .001” for both the spine and the edge of a katana, as all of this falls to the left of the proportional limit.

This all translates out in the real world as steel having the same elastic resistance, in a given cross section, no matter what the heat treat. If we define flex as elastic deformation, that is not permanent and will return to its original shape when the load is removed, and bend as plastic deformation that is permanent when the load is removed. Then young’s modulus or modulus of elasticity applies to the flexing of steel, and the flex of that steel will be the same regardless of heat treatment.

Bending of steel will be affected by heat treatment. So how stiff or resistant to flex a blade can be is solely determined by the amount of steel there is to move. A thin blade will be easier to flex than a thick one. A thin blade will also be able to flex farther without taking a set due to what is going on in the cross section.

Think of the cross section of a blade, being flexed or bent, as a lever. To one side of the center, or fulcrum, are compressive forces (the inside of the curve) and on the opposite side are tensile forces. Simple physics tells you that the farther you get from the fulcrum the greater the forces can be exerted, so a thick blade will have more tensile forces exerted on that outer skin than a thin one, but the amount of material to be affect by young’s modulus will also increase. So basically all the stakes go up. A thinner blade of the same length will handle the flex better, but if you make the dimension entirely proportional then we are back to square one.

A quick look at the curves will show you that a person trying to display his heat-treating prowess by flexing a sword in front of you is showing you nothing more than the blade has a higher yield point. This could mean that it is HRC 45 or HRC 62! The only thing it definitely tells you is that it is thinner than blade that doesn’t flex as well. In order to really determine anything about the heat treat, by this flexing, is to exceed the yield point, which means either a bent or broken blade.

Those most impressed with elastic deformation of blades are those who are used to having them bend too easily. In European blades this results from a poor quench or too aggressive tempering. Japanese blades are the two extremes in one blade, a spine that will easily reach the proportional limit and an edge that will have little room between yield and failure, but it all seems to equal out most times.

Enough on how much this stuff applies to us, and let’s get into how irrelevant it can be. One of the paradoxes of modern sword and knife testing is the heavy emphasis on tensile strength toughness, with the main test being steady bending. This is most confusing since rarely will a knife or sword see these types of stress in use. This is why I pay much less attention to this type of testing and focus heavily on what large knives and swords will be subjected to- impact type testing. You don’t gently pry things with swords- you hit things!
 
I beat the crap out of my raptor
It's the one with the. o kissaki

For the price the blade although the grinds looked like crap to me (you could reshape if you had the want) was totally worth the price.

The tsuka on the other hand was total junk and I wore it out in about a year or 2 ( I used and abused it)

The main thing to me and the whole reason I beat it up

Is that the feel and balance sucks to me. It feels like a sword like object

But NOT "alive" IN THE Hand

It's a good beginning blade to let you know how to handle a sword and it will make your arms strong lol (this one is heavy to me )
 
The Chesness 9260 swords are at about the same price point, and are better in nearly every way for the purpose you have in mind.
 
Cold steel dragonfly series are better. Feels much more balanced in hand than the warrior series. Better blade geometry too.
 
I don't have experience with the coldsteel katanas but I do have a raptor shobu zukiri and it is excellent.
 
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