Cts bdz1 questions

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Jul 16, 2019
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I've noticed cts bdz1 steel popping up on more and more knives lately, mostly on lower priced knives ($40 to $80) and it doesn't seem to be a real popular steel in the market yet judging by the limited info I found. I just got curious as to what this steel was all about so I did some research of my own and some popular companies use it including SOG, Kershaw, Gerber just to name a few.

What confuses me is that I've read some comparing it to 14c28n Sandvik, some comparing it more to plain 440A, some saying it's in between 8cr14mov and VG 10 and then I seen a steel chart saying it's just the equivalent to Chinese 6cr.

Now if it's the equivalent to 14c28n Sandvik then that to me is a pretty good steel for the money, but 6cr is a good step down from that from my knowledge. So my question is what is cts bdz1 steel actually the equivalent to? Is it a good steel like 14c28n? Or just another low grade steel like Chinese 6cr that sounds better then what it is?
 
I agree Superpog, Carpenter didn't think the BD's through very well and thanks for the info.

So if it's close to AEB-L or 13C26 it's probably a pretty dang decent steel for the money. Might get a folder in bdz1 and try it for myself. Thanks for clearing this one up for me Larrin.
 
No, Not 14c28n and not 7cr

It's the less available AEB-L with a dash of molybdenum.

It's nothing Fancy when thrown in a mass production knife since the HT is most likely bottomed out to hit the quota.

Under Austenitized, oversoaked, slow quench rate, zero cryo.

~58rc ranges.


But it's not made for folks that are geeked out on high performance anyways so who cares.

If it's the knife ya like and it scratches the itch it's all good, but ya can't complain if it's not a Ferrari.


I've noticed cts bdz1 steel popping up on more and more knives lately, mostly on lower priced knives ($40 to $80) and it doesn't seem to be a real popular steel in the market yet judging by the limited info I found. I just got curious as to what this steel was all about so I did some research of my own and some popular companies use it including SOG, Kershaw, Gerber just to name a few.

What confuses me is that I've read some comparing it to 14c28n Sandvik, some comparing it more to plain 440A, some saying it's in between 8cr14mov and VG 10 and then I seen a steel chart saying it's just the equivalent to Chinese 6cr.

Now if it's the equivalent to 14c28n Sandvik then that to me is a pretty good steel for the money, but 6cr is a good step down from that from my knowledge. So my question is what is cts bdz1 steel actually the equivalent to? Is it a good steel like 14c28n? Or just another low grade steel like Chinese 6cr that sounds better then what it is?
 
No, Not 14c28n and not 7cr

It's the less available AEB-L with a dash of molybdenum.

It's nothing Fancy when thrown in a mass production knife since the HT is most likely bottomed out to hit the quota.

Under Austenitized, oversoaked, slow quench rate, zero cryo.

~58rc ranges.


But it's not made for folks that are geeked out on high performance anyways so who cares.

If it's the knife ya like and it scratches the itch it's all good, but ya can't complain if it's not a Ferrari.
I'm not the type of guy who buys too many super steels anyhow, so a steel that's an equivalent to AEB-L should be enough for me. The only so called super steel I own right now is S35VN and I'm pretty sure that's not even classified as a "super steel" anymore am I right? So if that's the case I'm pretty much super steel handicapped at the moment lol, but yeah I think bdz1 should be good enough to scratch the itch.
 
No, Not 14c28n and not 7cr

It's the less available AEB-L with a dash of molybdenum.

It's nothing Fancy when thrown in a mass production knife since the HT is most likely bottomed out to hit the quota.

Under Austenitized, oversoaked, slow quench rate, zero cryo.

~58rc ranges.


But it's not made for folks that are geeked out on high performance anyways so who cares.

If it's the knife ya like and it scratches the itch it's all good, but ya can't complain if it's not a Ferrari.
Ferrari's are for rich guys anyhow, I can be happy with a Chevy lol
 
Ferrari's are for rich guys anyhow, I can be happy with a Chevy lol
I'm not arguing super steel here. I'm just saying there is a big difference between mass production HT and custom HT in the same steel.

You'll see experienced, knowledgeable custom knife makers rock AEB-L and it's almost a different steel compared to mass production knives if they use the same steel.
 
I'm not arguing super steel here. I'm just saying there is a big difference between mass production HT and custom HT in the same steel.

You'll see experienced, knowledgeable custom knife makers rock AEB-L and it's almost a different steel compared to mass production knives if they use the same steel.
Ok I gotcha now and I agree. An awesome HT is more important in the making of a good blade then the actual steel itself. You can have a blade made of S35VN with a crappy HT and a blade made of 440A with a outstanding HT and the blade made of 440A would be the better blade even if it's the more inferior steel of the two.
 
Ok I gotcha now and I agree. An awesome HT is more important in the making of a good blade then the actual steel itself. You can have a blade made of S35VN with a crappy HT and a blade made of 440A with a outstanding HT and the blade made of 440A would be the better blade even if it's the more inferior steel of the two.

It's funny and ironic you used 440a as this example.
I've grown to view CTS-BDZ-1 as a modern day, more refined version of 440a...
(Not to be confused with cts-BD1 or cts-BD1N, both completely different animals).

The only real difference between the 2 is much less chromium in BDZ-1, but........

440a has a long history of being used in stainless razor blades, and not only budget blades, but even custom blades (mostly of yesteryear, but regardless)... With a good reputable foundry, hitting all their marks, and a solid heat treat, 440a even today still makes a decent enough, highly rust resistant and tough stainless blade... is it a "super steel", absolutely not, but when well made it is a decent knife none-the-less...
(The main problem in today's market isn't the nomenclature itself in-as-much as it is the less then reputable manufacturing practices of many "budget friendly" 440a makers in the shadow of the modern ever evolving steel market of the new millenium)

In comes Carpenter (CarTech), and CTS-BDZ-1...
Sure there is much less Chromium then what's in traditional 440a, but CarTech is not your traditional run-of-the-muck steel foundry making every day run-of-the-muck traditional billet steel either. Just as seeing "CPM" in front of a steel name makes peoples ears and ....... perk up, "CTS" is no slouch in the steel industry, and is widely considered one of the industry leaders, especially here in the U.S.
State of the art vacuum processes, titanium alloys, NASA contracts, industry wages WELL north of average, (not to mention their buyout of another long time local competitor, Latrobe Specialty Steels, a little while back), Carpenter is certainly no slouch to the steel business, and their "CTS" branded steels are specific to "consistant fine edge holding" steels for knives and tools, and CTS-BDZ1 was specifically geared towards razor blades...

I mean, sure, they cut the amount of chromium down a bit from your classic billet 440a, that everyone from here to pakistan can make nowadays, but, they also have a state of the art facility doing state of the art metal stuff, with a world class reputation on the line, and even a "simple stainless" like cts-bdz1 (440a minus some chromium), is held to a much higher degree of tolerances and processes then your average typical "investment casting" and/or billet foundry would hold 440a to...
So that said, if you can guarantee a much more uniform melting matrix and distribution of elements, via a much better and more controlled process, then truth is you don't need as much Chromium in the matrix to still get an equally stainless result, because of even distribution vs. total carbon content, AND the resulting less overall and more evenly distributed chromium results in less (stray) carbides, which also allows for better edge stability in very fine edges, (like razor blades), while still retaining a very uniform stainless properties, AND overall better toughness, which is exactly what the steel was initially designed to be used for....

In a nutshell and long story short, 440a made a pretty decent stainless razor blade steel (thin edges) for quite some time, and it even made a pretty decent knife, especially years ago.
Years of technological advances over the years however, and Carpenter being among the industry leaders, (like Crucible(cpm), Voestelpine(bohler-uddehelm), Sandvik-Coromant, Yasugi(hitachi)), none of which are making any claims as the largest "producers" of steel persay, as there are foundries/companies out there pumping out your basic steels by the metric ton on top of metric ton multiplied to multiple exponents and then some, but rather we're talking about some of the industry leaders regarding "innovation and advancement" of the metallurgical industry as a whole... new metals, new processes, new technologies, etc), Carpenter found a way to make your common 440a stainless razor blade steel from the 40's and 50's, much cleaner, more uniform, and consistent from batch to batch, and basically an all around better steel, without sacrificing a thing about the original....

So is it a "super-steel", lol, absolutely not!!!

but it is a very super and refined version of an original classic, (440a), that will make very suitable, very tough and stain resistant, very stable fine (even razor) edged cutting instrument, which should be consistant from batch to batch to batch, provided the process (final heat treat) is also consistant fron batch to batch to batch...
 
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FWIW:
AEB-L is Bohler-Uddeholm's version
13c26 is Sandvik's version
CTS-bdz-1 is Carpenter's version

All of the exact same thing;

a highly refined version of the classic 440a, using cleaner and more precise practices to achieve better results, (very fine edge stabilty and toughness without sacrificing stainlessness).

Here's a graph of all 4 side by side;
za5yvFw.jpg

main difference being 440a has a noticeable higher chromium %, for even distribution being and old school billet steel, and the 2 european brands also cut out trace molybednum, but all in all they are all 3 just 440a-improved...
super stainless, still pretty reasonably tough, and all 4 able (with the proper heat treat) to successfully take and hold a very fine razors edge with just your basic standard upkeep.
 
They aren't crazy stainless but they are stainless.

The advantage is better ratio of Carbon/chromium balance,higher working hardnesses that can be achieved with custom HT. Nothing you'll see in production knives cause Compaines don't know or care and have to hit volume.

The lower chromium means finer chromium carbides.

440a has massive blocky Carbide because of the extra chromium.

The AEB-L has finer Carbides than thePM stainless steels and is much tougher all thanks to its low volume it's a trade off though and it's not wear resistant and no production company will do it justice with a boutique HT unfortunately. They all run too soft and skip the cryo and make a poor structure.

FWIW:
AEB-L is Bohler-Uddeholm's version
13c26 is Sandvik's version
CTS-bdz-1 is Carpenter's version

All of the exact same thing;

a highly refined version of the classic 440a, using cleaner and more precise practices to achieve better results, (very fine edge stabilty and toughness without sacrificing stainlessness).

Here's a graph of all 4 side by side;
za5yvFw.jpg

main difference being 440a has a noticeable higher chromium %, for even distribution being and old school billet steel, and the 2 european brands also cut out trace molybednum, but all in all they are all 3 just 440a-improved...
super stainless, still pretty reasonably tough, and all 4 able (with the proper heat treat) to successfully take and hold a very fine razors edge with just your basic standard upkeep.
 
It's funny and ironic you used 440a as this example.
I've grown to view CTS-BDZ-1 as a modern day, more refined version of 440a...
(Not to be confused with cts-BD1 or cts-BD1N, both completely different animals).

The only real difference between the 2 is much less chromium in BDZ-1, but........

440a has a long history of being used in stainless razor blades, and not only budget blades, but even custom blades (mostly of yesteryear, but regardless)... With a good reputable foundry, hitting all their marks, and a solid heat treat, 440a even today still makes a decent enough, highly rust resistant and tough stainless blade... is it a "super steel", absolutely not, but when well made it is a decent knife none-the-less...
(The main problem in today's market isn't the nomenclature itself in-as-much as it is the less then reputable manufacturing practices of many "budget friendly" 440a makers in the shadow of the modern ever evolving steel market of the new millenium)

In comes Carpenter (CarTech), and CTS-BDZ-1...
Sure there is much less Chromium then what's in traditional 440a, but CarTech is not your traditional run-of-the-muck steel foundry making every day run-of-the-muck traditional billet steel either. Just as seeing "CPM" in front of a steel name makes peoples ears and ....... perk up, "CTS" is no slouch in the steel industry, and is widely considered one of the industry leaders, especially here in the U.S.
State of the art vacuum processes, titanium alloys, NASA contracts, industry wages WELL north of average, (not to mention their buyout of another long time local competitor, Latrobe Specialty Steels, a little while back), Carpenter is certainly no slouch to the steel business, and their "CTS" branded steels are specific to "consistant fine edge holding" steels for knives and tools, and CTS-BDZ1 was specifically geared towards razor blades...

I mean, sure, they cut the amount of chromium down a bit from your classic billet 440a, that everyone from here to pakistan can make nowadays, but, they also have a state of the art facility doing state of the art metal stuff, with a world class reputation on the line, and even a "simple stainless" like cts-bdz1 (440a minus some chromium), is held to a much higher degree of tolerances and processes then your average typical "investment casting" and/or billet foundry would hold 440a to...
So that said, if you can guarantee a much more uniform melting matrix and distribution of elements, via a much better and more controlled process, then truth is you don't need as much Chromium in the matrix to still get an equally stainless result, because of even distribution vs. total carbon content, AND the resulting less overall and more evenly distributed chromium results in less (stray) carbides, which also allows for better edge stability in very fine edges, (like razor blades), while still retaining a very uniform stainless properties, AND overall better toughness, which is exactly what the steel was initially designed to be used for....

In a nutshell and long story short, 440a made a pretty decent stainless razor blade steel (thin edges) for quite some time, and it even made a pretty decent knife, especially years ago.
Years of technological advances over the years however, and Carpenter being among the industry leaders, (like Crucible(cpm), Voestelpine(bohler-uddehelm), Sandvik-Coromant, Yasugi(hitachi)), none of which are making any claims as the largest "producers" of steel persay, as there are foundries/companies out there pumping out your basic steels by the metric ton on top of metric ton multiplied to multiple exponents and then some, but rather we're talking about some of the industry leaders regarding "innovation and advancement" of the metallurgical industry as a whole... new metals, new processes, new technologies, etc), Carpenter found a way to make your common 440a stainless razor blade steel from the 40's and 50's, much cleaner, more uniform, and consistent from batch to batch, and basically an all around better steel, without sacrificing a thing about the original....

So is it a "super-steel", lol, absolutely not!!!

but it is a very super and refined version of an original classic, (440a), that will make very suitable, very tough and stain resistant, very stable fine (even razor) edged cutting instrument, which should be consistant from batch to batch to batch, provided the process (final heat treat) is also consistant fron batch to batch to batch...
Wow that's a lot of good info and 440a just happened to pop into my head at that moment because of it being one of the more common, cheapest and most widely used steels around, so I thought it made a really good example in that particular comparison. I have 440a in a fixed blade made by Browning that takes a scary edge and surprisingly keeps that edge longer then what I was expecting for 440a.
 
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