CTS-XHP (and 154CM + CPM-154, while we're at it)

Hashishiin

Hashishiin

Joined
Dec 29, 2021
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These appear to be special favorites of users. The terms I constantly see about these steels are, that they're "the perfect EDC steel", balance is exemplified. I have some experience with the XHP steel, mainly in my Chaparral, and found it very easy to maintain when I have had to, a pleasure in fact. I have come close, but have not had the pleasure of trying 154CM or it's powdered equivalent.

I have a few quandaries though: that being, everyone seems to know that it is a "stainless version of D2", but slightly different, having an edge up on it, if I recall correctly, but when I got my second knife in XHP in, a Native Chief, the literature described it as an air-hardened steel that was comparable, again, either to a stainless D2, or "a high-hardness 440c". I have never heard that comparison before! So, I did not know that D2 and 440c were so similarly matched, if this was the case and XHP is comparable to both in some regard, and I am inclined to believe Spyderco's literature.

I was wondering, XHP has been described to me as a "powdered, stainless" version of D2, as well, and was wondering if it was indeed powdered or not - I know that there are very similar (154CM/CPM-154) non-powdered/powdered versions of a steel, and more dissimilar ones that folks seem to speak of with more reverence (CPM-D2 vs D2) though I know Chinese "D2" plays a role in people's perception, and if CPM-D2 was that amazing, why did it fall out of popularity, or production, in Spyderco knives for example? Never had the chance to use it myself. Are there powdered/non-powdered versions of XHP?

I know lots of people will not scoff at low-alloy steels that are well-done, but, do you think that 440c is maybe a little under-rated, if a steel as good as Spyderco's XHP could be regarded as a high-hardness version the same? Perhaps if this was labelled differently, "440C+" or something, it would sell differently (and probably not in a good way!). I do not think it was by some mistake that they decided to change the name of CPM-440V to CPM-S60V, takes away the "440 series" associations we have, which is a fair thing for them to want to do at their qualtiy level.

Does the intense love of CTS-XHP show that the quality of a steel's heat-treat, how a knife is made, and perhaps slight tweaks to the steel, are the most important things?
 
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K.O.D. said:
I've been using my CTS-XHP manix 2 for over 8 years. For me, it's been better than S30V or S35VN.
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Continuing to read about it, I found it was made to combine the best properties of D2 and 440C and seems to surpass both in doing so - I mean do you, or anyone, have a knife in D2 and 440C that you prefer (because of the steel-type, specifically) or a knife in XHP that you think would be better if it was D2 or 440C?

It seems just, superior somehow. But the fact that the numbers are so similar to 440C, little bit of Moly added, but seems to be the slight tweakage of chemistry and Spyderco's treatment that makes it what it is, along with the quality knives they are put on that really puts it above other things like S30V. I am debating the future of my S30V knives, because the only ones I own... I own because I really like the actual knife (Yojumbo and PM2 Wharnie are my only S30V knives, and I was definitely bummed to find out that 1. The PM2 Wharncliffe was a new release when I bought it, and 2. Cutlery Shoppe just released an XHP version of that, which would be way better than some S30V.

Not that it would happen... but I would be very interested in a "common" Spyderco sprint-run, something like maybe a Native, Sage, PM2, something of the sort, in a low-alloy steel, such as... 440C, 420HC, 1095, something like that, heat-treated the way Spyderco does, and see how that holds up compared to a "standard" steel like VG-10 or S30V, or S35VN. I would really love to try it, a true, tough-use, comp-lock or back-lock USA-made Spyderco in a low-alloy steel. Probably the closest I can get to that is using my old G-2 Stainless knives or maybe, if I want an American alloy, my CTS-BD1N PM2. I know that is not a powder-steel, any word on whether XHP is powdered?


S45 more stable at the edge than S30 and more edge-retention-y than S35, from my small experience. I am sure I will prefer XHP - I am sure I would end up chipping S30V somehow. XHP feels right.
 
It is a powdered steel.
It has 440C chromium content (over 16%), which is 25% increased compare to D2 chromium content.
It has D2 carbon content (1.60%), which is 60% more than base 440C (1% carbon).
With other alloying elements similar to D2, it is, by logic, a steel with high volume of carbide and therefore hard and abrasion resistance. Nevertheless, the carbon to alloy ratio is still weak and might not have the same corrosion resistance as 440C. Both D2 and 440C are not known for the toughness, but the powder metallurgy technologies have done wonderful things.

P/s: nvm, Larrin has an article about it already. He is more reliable.
knifesteelnerds.com

XHP Steel - History and Properties - Knife Steel Nerds

XHP is a powder metallurgy stainless steel produced by Carpenter Technology. How was it developed? How does it compare to other knife steels?
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
 
I have far too many Benchmade knives with 154CM. I have sworn off of buying 154CM because the edge retention is so poor--in my experience, much worse than S30V and D2, and worse than LC200N, 14C28N, or AUS-8. I have no XHP or CPM-154. I have a couple knives with 440C. I have not used them much, but so far 440C seems quite good for a $12 knife.

I have also sworn off of D2 but only because it rusts so easily where I live.
 
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Another Shepherd said:
I have far too many Benchmade knives with 154CM. I have sworn off of buying 154CM because the edge retention is so poor--in my experience, much worse than S30V and D2, and worse than LC200N, 14C28N, or AUS-8. I have no XHP or CPM-154. I have a couple knives with 440C. I have not used them much, but so far 440C seems quite good for a $12 knife.

I have also sworn off of D2 but only because it rusts so easily where I live.
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$12 knives are not going to be 440C, despite the label.
 
I've never owned CTS-XHP and have never researched it much, however I agree that it would be very cool if Spyderco would make a PM3 or something of the like in a high hardness 1095!
 
XHP has its fans though I’m not sure I’ve seen the same level of intense love for the steel you are describing. As for the “440C+” suggestion, it used to be called 440-XH back in the day, and was originally a conventional steel (non-PM).
 
Hashishiin said:
Continuing to read about it, I found it was made to combine the best properties of D2 and 440C and seems to surpass both in doing so - I mean do you, or anyone, have a knife in D2 and 440C that you prefer (because of the steel-type, specifically) or a knife in XHP that you think would be better if it was D2 or 440C?

It seems just, superior somehow. But the fact that the numbers are so similar to 440C, little bit of Moly added, but seems to be the slight tweakage of chemistry and Spyderco's treatment that makes it what it is, along with the quality knives they are put on that really puts it above other things like S30V. I am debating the future of my S30V knives, because the only ones I own... I own because I really like the actual knife (Yojumbo and PM2 Wharnie are my only S30V knives, and I was definitely bummed to find out that 1. The PM2 Wharncliffe was a new release when I bought it, and 2. Cutlery Shoppe just released an XHP version of that, which would be way better than some S30V.

Not that it would happen... but I would be very interested in a "common" Spyderco sprint-run, something like maybe a Native, Sage, PM2, something of the sort, in a low-alloy steel, such as... 440C, 420HC, 1095, something like that, heat-treated the way Spyderco does, and see how that holds up compared to a "standard" steel like VG-10 or S30V, or S35VN. I would really love to try it, a true, tough-use, comp-lock or back-lock USA-made Spyderco in a low-alloy steel. Probably the closest I can get to that is using my old G-2 Stainless knives or maybe, if I want an American alloy, my CTS-BD1N PM2. I know that is not a powder-steel, any word on whether XHP is powdered?


S45 more stable at the edge than S30 and more edge-retention-y than S35, from my small experience. I am sure I will prefer XHP - I am sure I would end up chipping S30V somehow. XHP feels right.
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Keep in mind I’m no stele exert, but it seems a few small alterations to a steel done correctly can yield impressive results. I think we see that with XHP.
 
154 to me has always been ok, but nothing special. Love me some XHP. Like others, I will generally take it over anything up to S35vn/S45vn. Most of my use has been from Cold Steel, and a few Spyderco.

As general, all around steel for my every day use, I still generally go 20cv, M4, and XHP..
 
CTS-XHP has always felt similar to S30V to me, except being noticeably less corrosion resistant. It's in the same group of steels for me as M390, S[34]5VN, S90v, etc., where my favorite is S90v. If I don't care too much for corrosion resistance, I might as well use Cruwear or 3V, so XHP knives stay mostly at home.

CPM-154 is great, beats all the other stainless steels that I have (except AEB-L/NitroV and now Magnacut) wrt toughness at higher wear resistance. Not concerned about breaking a blade, but I hate chips.

I really have to like a knife to use plain 154CM.
 
I like CTS-XHP (CS American Lawman). It takes a very fine edge compared to conventional D2 and holds it an incredibly long time. Can't address its corrosion resistance as the Lawman is DLC coated. I don't care for CM-154, but that may be because both my knives in that steel, a Grippie and an Emerson have quite thick grinds and don't cut particularly well. CPM-154 is much better IMHO, but my BassPro 110 in that steel has a much slimmer blade than the Emerson and Grippie.
 
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I've had no rust issues with XHP, or even M4, but I'm not in a super corrosive environment, and I rarely sweat.

I like the balance of edge retention and ease of bringing it back to very sharp. I never let my knives get dull,so it's only touching out on fine and ultra fine stones, though I used medium once I think.

Most of my use for folders is very light. When I need to do/expect the need to do heavier cutting, it's the Manix 2 XHP, Gayle Bradley M4, or ZT 0095 S90V.
 
In my use XHP is significantly better edge holding wise than CPM154. It’s in the same class as S30V. My only examples are a couple Chaparrals. The edge holding vs ease of sharpening makes it one of my favorite steels.
 
Another Shepherd said:
I have far too many Benchmade knives with 154CM. I have sworn off of buying 154CM because the edge retention is so poor--in my experience, much worse than S30V and D2, and worse than LC200N, 14C28N, or AUS-8. I have no XHP or CPM-154. I have a couple knives with 440C. I have not used them much, but so far 440C seems quite good for a $12 knife.

I have also sworn off of D2 but only because it rusts so easily where I live.
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I agree. My BM 154cm folders were crap; the edge had no clue. I even swore off BM because of it...
...and their sharpening service was a joke.
 
I have a spyderco domino in CTS-XHP and I prefer it over S30V. I found it to be easier to sharpen and less prone to chipping than S30V. Seems to hold a working edge longer.
 
Larrin said:
XHP has its fans though I’m not sure I’ve seen the same level of intense love for the steel you are describing. As for the “440C+” suggestion, it used to be called 440-XH back in the day, and was originally a conventional steel (non-PM).
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"Was originally", but what about now, do you (or anyone) have any idea? Say, new Spyderco knives in the steel, are those powdered? Are powdered steels ever "air-hardened", for example? The intense love, I don't know, maybe it is just from certain circles, but it seems to have a devoted fanbase. Thanks for chiming in, Doc!
K.O.D. said:
I've had no rust issues with XHP, or even M4, but I'm not in a super corrosive environment, and I rarely sweat.

I like the balance of edge retention and ease of bringing it back to very sharp. I never let my knives get dull,so it's only touching out on fine and ultra fine stones, though I used medium once I think.

Most of my use for folders is very light. When I need to do/expect the need to do heavier cutting, it's the Manix 2 XHP, Gayle Bradley M4, or ZT 0095 S90V.
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I am in CA and do not have super corrosive sweat, and can carry M4 and K390 with only minimal spotting if I'm cutting a bunch of natural material, basically no problems. Things like Cruwear may as well be stainless for me!

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Err, and I have to say, while I've not yet tried 154CM, this thread leaves me with a sense of happiness that I decided to get my Chap and Native Chief in XHP, and my little Boker USB OTF in D2, as opposed to spending bigger on that small auto getting a 154CM Kershaw. As I said, loved touching up the Chap, cannot wait to see how my Native Chief behaves.
 
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