Recommendation? Curious about micarta!

[ShadNuke]

Hey all! I am going to be putting together some more diy micarta, and finally going to see some of my ideas come to fruition!! Now, I know there are guys out there that use silicone moulds for making handle scale blanks with stuff like Alumilite and different wood burls, and other things involving resin and inanimate objects. This brings me to my question. I am wondering, if I were to make a mould for paper micarta, out of silicone(i.e. 8½ x 11 x ¼ thick), if the mould would tolerate being clamped. My guess is yes, but would I be better off making a thicker mould out of silicone, or go with a thinner design, kinda like those silicone cupcake trays or cookie sheets that you can buy? I know that it doesn't need to be clamped hard, but could I get away with say, making a block of wood just smaller than the paper size I intend to use, and then just add some weight to it instead of clamping? It would definitely be less hard on the silicone mould, but would I be able to put enough pressure on the paper? Guys usually use blocks of wood, or a little wooden mould, but I like the idea of silicone, because you can cleanly and easily break the mould away from the resin, saving on a lot of clean up. My idea is leaning toward something kinda like the "Sweetheart Grips" that soldiers made in WW2.

So if any of you have gone so far as to use a silicone mould for anything handle scale related, I would love to hear how well your moulds hold up to repeated use. If I'm in the wrong place, I apologize. If you can think of somewhere else I could ask the question, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks!
Kev

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

You can't make Micarta at home. It is a phenolic resin laminate and the name is trademarked. What is made at home is a laminate. Some of us call it MyCarta.
It takes considerable pressure to get a tight bond between the layers. A strong screw clamp or similar pressure is needed.

To get good results use epoxy resin. West system is the preferred type. Use the slow cure hardener.

 

[ShadNuke]

Now you're just splitting hairs. Whatever you want to call it, Mycarta, diy micarta, diy resin and burlap handle scales, whatever it may be, so be it. It's kinda like how Kleenex has become interchangeable with tissues. You didn't even answer the question, but thanks for pointing out my big mistake. I've made the stuff before, and know what resins work and don't. I'm curious about the silicone moulds holding up to clamping pressure. It's not like you clamp the stuff at a billion pounds, or else you will squeeze all the resin out.

 

[john april]

he aint splitting hairs there is a big difference between the home made stuff and the real stuff in performance, dimensional stability, density and finish. i have bought the homemade micarta before, and will not use it again. if you know anything about density, the homemade stuff is like pine, and the real stuff is like ironwood. you can rasp through the homemade stuff easily compared to the real stuff. you can hammer nails into wood with micarta handle and it barely leaves any marks. try that with mycarta and you will have a mess. not that you would ever use it for a hammer, but just to illustrate its toughness in an emergency. real micarta is made in a 10 ton heated press, the heat cures the phenolic resin, and the 10 ton press is why it is so dense and tough. the linen or canvas is saturated, so you cannot squeeze it all out. i have not personally heard of anyone using silicone molds. the smartest idea i had seen was walter sorrels youtube video where he made home made handle material in a plastic ziplock bag to keep the resin from making a mess when he clamped it between two metal slabs.

 

[ShadNuke]

I was just saying, that it has become an interchangeable word within the community. It's just like the other brand facial tissues being called Kleenex, or how some people call every brown soft drink Coke or Pepsi. Call it what you like, if you say micarta to anyone who has made knives, the first thing that comes to mind is handle scales. You both knew exactly what I was referring to. I'm not concerned about the differences, for the simple fact that I've never heard of properly made diy micarta ever failing as a knife handle material. At least the stuff I have made, anyway. Would I use it in a life or death application?¹ Probably not. I spent a couple years making fibreglass truck accessories, like sun visors, and cab extenders, etc... and if it's done properly, with a decent resin, it comes out just as good as any car part, or other fibreglass accessory for a vehicle that I have made. I've seen EDC knives with diy paper micarta hold up better than some G10, as well as some of the other materials that some knife manufacturers use. The best stuff I made was with old fleece sweatpants material. A high end, longer cure resin is definitely the way to do it, but it can be done with a 5 minute epoxy if you really want, and it will hold up to whatever the average person can throw at it. My idea, I'm hoping to have an end product that looks similar to that Carvex handle material. It also might work well as pistol grips, if I can get the look right. I just figured I'd ask here, because I have no idea where I would even ask a question like this, about silicone lol.

 

[Natlek]

real micarta is made in a 10 ton heated press, the heat cures the phenolic resin, and the 10 ton press is why it is so dense and tough.

I agree with everything you write .Half mile from me was factory for micarta and other advanced materials .They use 200 tons press ......BUT if we divide that 200 tons on 2x1 meter surface .............. It can be done and I was made it several times with epoxy , with phenolic resin , fiberglas resin ....but small pieces for one knife and since I use more pressure on square foot then factory ...........

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

Now you're just splitting hairs.

He is not splitting hairs. There is no comparison between Micarta and home made laminated material. Using the name Micarta to describe home made laminate is deceptive to buyers.

I've made the stuff before, and know what resins work and don't. I'm curious about the silicone moulds holding up to clamping pressure. It's not like you clamp the stuff at a billion pounds, or else you will squeeze all the resin out.

I've been to a factory where G10 and phenolic laminates are made. The hydraulic press applying pressure was 36" diameter cylinder. I do not know the exact tonnage of the press, but it was over 1,000 tons. Silicon molds would not work in that environment.

Maybe you should rethink the question, am I using enough pressure?

Chuck

 

[Natlek]

Hey all! I am going to be putting together some more diy micarta, and finally going to see some of my ideas come to fruition!! Now, I know there are guys out there that use silicone moulds for making handle scale blanks with stuff like Alumilite and different wood burls, and other things involving resin and inanimate objects. This brings me to my question. I am wondering, if I were to make a mould for paper micarta, out of silicone(i.e. 8½ x 11 x ¼ thick), if the mould would tolerate being clamped. My guess is yes, but would I be better off making a thicker mould out of silicone, or go with a thinner design, kinda like those silicone cupcake trays or cookie sheets that you can buy? I know that it doesn't need to be clamped hard, but could I get away with say, making a block of wood just smaller than the paper size I intend to use, and then just add some weight to it instead of clamping? It would definitely be less hard on the silicone mould, but would I be able to put enough pressure on the paper? Guys usually use blocks of wood, or a little wooden mould, but I like the idea of silicone, because you can cleanly and easily break the mould away from the resin, saving on a lot of clean up. My idea is leaning toward something kinda like the "Sweetheart Grips" that soldiers made in WW2.

So if any of you have gone so far as to use a silicone mould for anything handle scale related, I would love to hear how well your moulds hold up to repeated use. If I'm in the wrong place, I apologize. If you can think of somewhere else I could ask the question, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks!
Kev

I don t try that , but I think that would not work .Silicon mould is to soft for any pressure on it ....If I understand you well you want to make finished shape scale right from mould ?

 

[Natlek]

Hey all! I am going to be putting together some more diy micarta, and finally going to see some of my ideas come to fruition!! Now, I know there are guys out there that use silicone moulds for making handle scale blanks with stuff like Alumilite and different wood burls, and other things involving resin and inanimate objects. This brings me to my question. I am wondering, if I were to make a mould for paper micarta, out of silicone(i.e. 8½ x 11 x ¼ thick), if the mould would tolerate being clamped. My guess is yes, but would I be better off making a thicker mould out of silicone, or go with a thinner design, kinda like those silicone cupcake trays or cookie sheets that you can buy? I know that it doesn't need to be clamped hard, but could I get away with say, making a block of wood just smaller than the paper size I intend to use, and then just add some weight to it instead of clamping? It would definitely be less hard on the silicone mould, but would I be able to put enough pressure on the paper? Guys usually use blocks of wood, or a little wooden mould, but I like the idea of silicone, because you can cleanly and from the easily , saving on a lot of clean up. My idea is leaning toward something kinda like the "Sweetheart Grips" that soldiers made in WW2.

So if any of you have gone so far as to use a silicone mould for anything handle scale related, I would love to hear how well your moulds hold up to repeated use. If I'm in the wrong place, I apologize. If you can think of somewhere else I could ask the question, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks!
Kev

Well , I read whole text this time I use baking paper and never have problem with releasing material for my steel mould .Even with carbon fiber with phenolic resin baked on 140 celsius .You can make mould from plastic , too? Right name don t come to my mind in moment ...plastic that you can t glue ....Why you complicated things ?

 

[AVigil]

If you use a resin actually made for it what you make will be far superior to using West systems epoxy.

Contact Polymer Composites in Ontario California and they have an entire line of resins that are high impact, food safe and far superior to the west systems. They sell on their website as well as ebay in small amounts. Their stuff is used in aerospace and many industries.

The chemist/owner name is Gerald and he can point you to the correct product for your application.

You can literally take a hammer to it and beat it with no damage.
You can make a high impact strong laminate without high pressure.

The reason so many home made stuff is weak is due to using resins not designed for that purpose.

Here is a video of me hammering on some.

 

[drew1972]

A company by the name of unique micarta on facebook uses aluminum molds and squeezes his on a 50 ton press. Not sure what resin he's using but it's really nice quality stuff.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Adam-
Most of the impact was taken by the vise!

 

[TLR]

There is a guy on

A company by the name of unique micarta on facebook uses aluminum molds and squeezes his on a 50 ton press. Not sure what resin he's using but it's really nice quality stuff.

He has changed his name but his laminate is the best non-commercial I've worked with by far. There's a reason he is gaining popularity so fast. This isn't a plug just saying all non-commercial laminates aren't equal.

OP - If you search his instagram you will see his setup. I'm not sure how much pressure he is generating in his presses but it is significant.

 

[AVigil]

Adam-
Most of the impact was taken by the vise!

Nope, I whacked it good and hard. You could place it on concrete and do the same.

It is a high impact resin, that is one of its characteristics and use in aero space industry

This is not a marine epoxy for fixing fiberglass boats,

Check them out. They work with SpaceX, Northrop, Lockheed etc.

http://www.polymercompositesinc.com/

Here is a vid of some left over from wrapping handles.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

That video is pretty impressive!

 

[john april]

your title was "curious about micarta" then you claimed you were not concerned with the differences. i wish you luck in your knife making have a great day.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I wasn't trying to split hairs. Sorry if you took it that way.
I informed you about the product name you were using and said you can't make it at home.
I also said it would take considerable pressure, which would imply a silicone mold would not work.
A sheet of saran wrap over the wooden mold is all you need to keep it from bonding, or apply a mold release like PVA or white petroleum.
The screw clamp I was referring to is a large wheel clamp like a flywheel press, or a large hydraulic press.

Good luck on your project.

 

[Horsewright]

Nope, I whacked it good and hard. You could place it on concrete and do the same.

It is a high impact resin, that is one of its characteristics and use in aero space industry

This is not a marine epoxy for fixing fiberglass boats,

Check them out. They work with SpaceX, Northrop, Lockheed etc.

http://www.polymercompositesinc.com/

Here is a vid of some left over from wrapping handles.

You're gonna have to bring some of that stuff up to the ranch Adam. We'll go shoot it.

 

[Natlek]

You're gonna have to bring some of that stuff up to the ranch Adam. We'll go shoot it.

Can I bring my own micarta ? You will need something more powerful than that mosquitoes

 

[Fred.Rowe]

A good friend came across 4 large pieces of butterscotch micarta with the original Westinghouse sticker, still in place. Our friend gifted us with a 36" X 24" by 3/8" piece of the micarta which I've been using with good effect. I can't tell what it was made with because you can't really see any lines or color changes in the material.