Custom built Axis Lock Project

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Alrighty lads, here's the deal.
After reading AKA Rage's psychotic test of several folders, I decided to try and see if there is a maker out there that would be willing to make a new and improved Axis Lock. By new and improved I mean an Axis Lock built with absolutely NO compromise in materials. Everything of the strongest and lightest possible materials. Price is not an object.
Here's some initial specs off the top of my head.
Blade from CPM-3V coated with Titanium CarboNitride, Heat treat by Paul Bos.
Oversized, solid anodized 6AL4V pin, with phosphor-bronce washers.
Stop pin also made from hard-anodized 6AL4V titanium.
Hard-anodized 6AL4V liners with cutouts to reduce weight.
Linen or Canvas micarta scales.
All screws either made from hardened stainless steel or titanium.
The object of this one is to make a folder that won't quit. Something that will really take a beating, but still keep going.
I would be interested in working with a maker on the design of this baby. I hope there is some interest in this. Email me or post here if you are interested in participating in this project.
All expenses will ofcourse be paid by me as this folder when done will be mine, mine, all mine!
*Coughcough* Sorry about that...

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Regards
Joshua "Kage" Calvert

"Move like Water, strike like Thunder..."
 
Sorry man, but the only way you'll be able to get a hold of an Axis locking knife, is by buying a Benchmade, or getting one directly from McHenry & Williams themselves. BM is the only outside company that is licensed to use the Axis lock, and I believe they hold that right exclusively for a certain period of time. Bummer eh?
frown.gif


-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
R

Ryan Meyering

Joined
May 4, 1999
Messages
534
If you were to use a Benchmade Axis lock knife as your starting point, at what point would it become patent infringement? It's clearly okay to give it new scales, etc. Could you also add redesigned liners and stop pin, a custom blade, essentially just keeping the parts from the locking mechanism from the original knife?

Ryan



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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
I`m not an expert on copyright law, but I don`t believe that it`s a violation if you build a lock based on the Axis for your own personal use. If you were to sell them, then you`d be in violation.

Modification of your own BM Axis lock knife is completely legal.
 
Originally posted by Steve B.:

Modification of your own BM Axis lock knife is completely legal.
Click to expand...


So is it legal to modify and sell BM Axis locks? How much can you change before it becomes illegal? It's probably somewhere between adding new scales and stripping just the locking mechanism out and building a brand new knife with only the lock being from the original knife.

ryan


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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
The moment you make any money on someone else`s patented idea, you`re in violation of the law. If the patent holder can show that he suffered a loss because your "modification", you`re violating the copyright.

I think if you did one for yourself, and maybe another for a friend, you`d have no problem. If you did a hundred of the them and took an ad out in Blade magazine to sell them, I think you`d hear from Benchmade`s team of lawyers.

It`s a real grey area. You never know how a judge is going to interpret the law and if you`ll be able to prove that a finacial loss was created.

 
Just to clear something up, this knife would be made for my personal use only. The only person that will make any money of it would be the maker of the folder, which is only fair, considering the hours he most likely will spend on it. I have no intention of having more than one, maximum two knives made. If anybody from Benchmade is trolling the forums, I would like to hear what they would have to say about this idea.

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Regards
Joshua "Kage" Calvert

"Move like Water, strike like Thunder..."
 
It seems obvious that the source for a custom Axis lock knife would be from McHenry & Williams.
smile.gif


Chi
 
The Axis lock is, without a doubt in my mind, the best lock ever put on a folder. If only the blade have the Spydie round hole, that would be just about perfect.

I like the specs you laid out. But isn't 3v more for larger, camp knife style blades? For a folder sized knife, maybe 10V or talonite should be considered. But 3V is a good pick.

The only thing I object to is the titanium stopping pin. For that you want something that can be hardened past 60 HRc. Titanium would be in the 30s, it would deform over time and the blade will develop up/down play.
 
I personally don't see it being a problem especially if your purchasing a BM axis lock before modification,they've already gotten their piece of the pie already.What you do with it after is your own business.Its not like you manufactured a knife with an axis lock independently and chiseled BM out of a sale.Ralph
 
Ok, patent law is something I know about, given my choice of profession. It is illegal to make any patented item, even for your own use. Modification of a patented item is not illegal, but selling it is. The patent in this case is on the lock, not the whole knife, so replacing scales is okay, but replacing anything which directly affects the lock (liners, lock mechanism, blade, but not the pivot pin) is not. You could remove the lock components and modify them, as in re-heat-treating the Axis pin to a higher Rc.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Carnifex,
I love the type of project you propose. Take a great product and turn it into something out of this world. Unfortunately, in this case it appears as though the patent attorneys of the world have conspired against you. As a possible alternative you may want to stay tuned over on the Busse forum. He currently has a folder in the works which, if the rumors are true, may end up being very close to what you're looking for; i.e., blade made from an exotic alloy (INFI) and a locking mechanism that's "nuclear tough" as Jerry likes to say.

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Semper Fi
 
Ok, so I can gather from what you guys say, that even though I would only be making one for myself, it would still be a gross violation of copyright...
Oh well, then the only real solution is to get McHenry & Williams to make a custom Axis lock for me.... Anybody know how to contact those two gentlemen? Email, homepage?
oh and btw, 6AL4V titanium is usually around 46-48 Rockwell, not in the 30's as suggested above. The hardanodization also contributes to the stiffness of the material, as it makes the surface significantly harder...

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Regards
Joshua "Kage" Calvert

"Move like Water, strike like Thunder..."
 
I gotta say, I got my first Axis lock (BM705) and it's incredible. I am definitely considering a custom. One note for carnifex: Ti is not the end-all of materials. In situations requring tensile loading, low weight, or bio-compatibility (implants), Ti is great. For a stop pin, pivot pin, or screw, Ti performs only so-so. Stainless is better for those items, IMO (read my profile, I know about Ti
smile.gif
). Also, I think CPM420V might be better than 3V for this, given that a small folder needs edge holding a lot more than impact resistance (not that 420V is a slouch in that department).

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
I agree, JB, Ti is not the ultimate material, but titanium and it's alloys have a significant advantage over any type of stainless steel and that is that it is virtually corrosion proof. If you can put your hand in it safely, Ti won't corrode in it either. The other advantage I see to Ti is it's remarkable resilience and toughness. As a bladematerial it has very limited uses, due to it's low Rc, but for all the periphernalia, I consider titanium to be a very suitable material. Screws, pivots and stop pins in Ti should actually hold up admirably.
I have for several years now had a crank on my Mountain Bike made from 6AL4V...Completely made from 6AL4V. The only thing I have had to replace on it has been the steel ball bearings...The rest of the unit shows little to no wear after having been exposed to conditions that would have caused stainless steel units to fail a long time a go. And I think we can quickly agree that the stresses that the pedal crank undergo on a mountain bike, can be significantly higher than those your common folder is exposed to. I would love to talk to you further on this topic, as your field of education is one that has interested me in many ways...

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Regards
Joshua "Kage" Calvert

"Move like Water, strike like Thunder..."
 
Okay, just to clarify for the dense among us, if I was to take the Axis lock off of a Benchmade knife, and install it on a completely different knife for my own personal use, read: not resale, that would or would not be patent infringement?


Curiously stupid,
Jared



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Broken promises don't upset me. I just think, why did they believe me?

I hope that after I die, people will say of me: "That guy sure owed me a lot of money."
 
Well, I tend to define a knife by it's blade, and the blade is integral to the Axis lock, to I would think of that as replacing the handle, rather than putting an Axis in a new knife. You could also call up McHenry & Williams and ask permission to use the lock in a new folder which you will not sell.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Joshua, take a look at the, I think, April issue of Blade. Maybe March. Anyway, the last article in there is on the D.O.G. custom folder. The lock on it is a little similar to the Axis, but not. You could probably get the maker to do your custom for you. The lock is more similar to the old Gerber bolt lock, but the principle is extremely similar to the axis. If you want, e-mail me off-line and I will look up the name of the maker for you, along with contact info. I just don't have it here with me now.

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iktomi
 
Well, I was feeling adventurous, so I went over the the Patent office web site and pulled up the patent on the Axis lock. The images are available from a loink at the bottom of the page.

Since that caused a 'scrolling screen of death,' I removed the url tag, so you're just going to have to copy-and-paste, like back in the olden days (add a http:// to the very beginning and paste each line in, each after the previous one).

164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=
/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=
'5,737,841'.WKU.&OS=PN/5,737,841&RS=PN/5,737,841

--JP

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-06-2000).]
 
Originally posted by e_utopia:
Well, I was feeling adventurous, so I went over the the Patent office web site and pulled up the patent on the Axis lock.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that was interesting. Notice how "body member 62" has evolved since then.

(And for those who haven't the plugin to see the images on the site mentioned above, you can also look <a href="http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US05737841__">here</a>.)



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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
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