Custom makers don't like production knives?

Steel130

Steel130

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Sep 17, 2010
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I know a guy who is apprenticing to learn the Japanese style of swords. He has been doing this for some time and his work is gorgeous. Yet he seems for the most part very much against production knives. I suppose for what a knife does, I don't see how I could justify buying a 1,000 dollar knife over a 60 dollar production. Sure if I had the money I would buy custom made knives. So could someone give me some insight. Are custom made knives really that much better than a production made knife?
Thanks
Steele
 
No, there are plenty of makers buying and carrying production knives... not to mention letting their designs be made into production versions.
 
There are a lot of production knives that were designed by custom knife makers. The ZT 551 is designed by Rick Hinderer for example. I would say that most custom knife makers like production knives a lot because many of them have designed a bunch of the production knives. As for the Custom knife vs the production knife the old saying is You Get What You Pay For! I dont think that you will find many production knives that are as good as a custom folder. The ZT 551 would be one that comes close but still does not match a Custom Hinderer. Just my thoughts. Kevin :D
 
As far as cutting performance is concerned, a Kershaw JYD 2 or Spyderco Endura (especially in ZDP-189 with a full flat grind) will compare very well to virtually any custom knife.
And that's if you want high tech steel.
If you don't care for fancy steel, but want a knife that is highly polished, made with high tolerances and extremely good blade geometry, get a Victorinox SAK. They are some of the best slicers out there.

Custom knives give you high tech materials with precision engineering and amazing aesthetics and ergonomics. There are plenty of reasons to buy a custom knife.
In the end though, the most basic forms of the tool are all you really need.
 
I own both production and custom/handmade knives and hawks. I like being able to get a quality made/designed knife at an affordable price with many production blades. You can also get very well made custom/handmades from makers on this forum for the same price and or less than that of many production blades. With custom/handmade the thing that attracts me is the ability of the maker to turn raw materials into something beautiful and functional. A skill I wish I had.
 
As always, the point of diminishing returns applies. A $100 dollar knife is much better than a $50 knife typically, but there isn't nearly as much difference between a $200 knife and a $400 one. I, for one, would not pay that much for a knife. But I'm not against custom makers, either, because so many of them make great production designs.
 
SteeleySawyer said:
I know a guy who is apprenticing to learn the Japanese style of swords. He has been doing this for some time and his work is gorgeous. Yet he seems for the most part very much against production knives. I suppose for what a knife does, I don't see how I could justify buying a 1,000 dollar knife over a 60 dollar production. Sure if I had the money I would buy custom made knives. So could someone give me some insight. Are custom made knives really that much better than a production made knife?
Thanks
Steele
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If a custom knifemaker is offered money to design a knife for Company X, that is his prerogative to accept or decline the offer. Seeing as the economy is as tough as it is now, it would not make financial sense to refuse. Aside from that, a production knife company can be the ticket to propel a custom knifemakers career into the bigtime. It would be considered an honor for a production knife company to ask for a collaboration with a custom maker. I don't see the sword market is as being larger than the pocket/fixed knife market. It could also be that your sword maker friend is a little bitter. I could be wrong.

As people collect knives through the years, their tastes evolve. Some that start with the $10-$50 range (given enough interest and time) will eventually evolve to the CRk, Hinderer, Darrel Ralph knives. Not always, but if the interest in there, people find a way. You might not be at that level yet, or have enough interest to get there.
In my case, I own Sebenzas', XM-18s', Striders',etc. but I also love the designs that Spyderco and Kershaw release and I use them. I'm by no means a knife snob in the sense of "I will only use a knife that costs $400 and up". part of the fun for me is collecting and using all sorts of knives.

Mike Snody - Benchmade
Rick Hinderer - Gerber/ZT
Chris Reeve - CRKT (although there were issues)
Mick Strider - Buck
Gayle Bradley/Fred Perrin/Ed Shempp/ Kevin Wilkins - Spyderco
 
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Get a Demko or a CS Tri-Ad lock folder... both just as tight.
 
SteeleySawyer said:
Are custom made knives really that much better than a production made knife?
Click to expand...

A knife is meant to cut first and foremost. You can do that with any cheapie knife as long as it has some decent edge on it.

Beyond that it's all about aesthetics, fit and finish, materials, and labor costs.

I think most of us that buy expensive possessions (cars, guns, knives, phones, video cards, cameras, watches, shoes, clothes, etc) appreciate the design and workmanship that went into the product.

With that said, I have no production knives. I also don't own any super duper high end 1000+ dollar knives. I tend to stay around mid range or slightly above mid range. It's a good middle ground for me.
 
I own both customs and production knives and to me I classify alot of my customs as art in my pocket ,otherwise I almost can't justify paying as much as I do for them ,however for some beautiful customs (fixed blade)I pay about $225-260 that's actually not that far from a production piece price, and I am able to have some input to what I want as far as steel type,sheath preference,handle mtl.,etc..-generally speaking customs also get more personal attention in heat treat as well.
 
Japanese swordmakers (and collectors of them) are the true snobs of the knife and sword world. Not only will they look down their noses on production knives, but they'll also look down on most custom knives and swords. I've had the opportunity to get into heated discussions with some of them, and while I have to admit that there's a lot of basis for their opinions (Japanese swordmaking is a highly regulated tradition going back hundreds, if not thousands of years, and many of those ancient swords are still razor sharp and serviceable today), I can't see myself spending many thousands of dollars on something that's only moderately more useful than something being made today.

Please note, though, that your friend's argument probably isn't "custom v. production," but is more likely "traditional Japanese v. everything else."
 
Samael I think you made a good point. My friend is deep into the tradition of everything being traditional on the sword, along with his teacher. So I think the Japanese vs everything else is probably more his outlook. I am actually going to apprentice under both of them for awhile here in about 6 months or so. I want to learn the basics more though so that I can possible start to make my own knives.
 
Samael said:
many of those ancient swords are still razor sharp and serviceable
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I've seen this before offered as a testament to the quality of older swords vs. new ones. Is there any reason that an old sword that has been passed down and hasn't spent any time at the bottom of a river wouldn't be as servicable as it was when it was made?

Based on my own previous misconceptions and those of others I've encountered, I'd have to say Samael is right about the traditional Japanes vs. everything else angle.
 
Your friend may simply be a bit over zealous as many apprentices in many fields are initially. When one becomes enamored enough of a person or method whether it be knifemaking or a martial art to become an apprentice it is certainly not unknown for their enthusiasm for the chosen art to become all consuming and one dimensional. Japanese sword apprentices, wing chun or BJJ students , even BMW owners tend to think that their investment of time and money is the only way and all other ways are not worthy of consideration. He is a new disciple, a new member of the club of course it has to be the right and only way.
 
me2 said:
Is there any reason that an old sword that has been passed down and hasn't spent any time at the bottom of a river wouldn't be as servicable as it was when it was made?
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A "true believer" would tell you that it wouldn't, because none of them have ever lasted long enough. I don't really know, myself.
 
i believe the best way one can understand the difference between a good production knife & a good custom knife is to examine them side by side. it will solve any confusion one may have had before the comparison.
dennis
 
Performance in a production piece is always less than that of a custom. (Why did Ken Onion have to insist his little skinner be able to finish an animal without re-sharpening?) The problem with custom work is separating the people who make users from those who make art or figure that 9 out of 10 people will be happy. A good custom knife will not only ooze excellent workmanship but it will deliver in the performance catagory. Most people with custom knives are looking for performance and that boils down to edge retention.
The bar is pretty low with many steels and brands, and the only reason, generally, to own a production knife is so you can toss it when you have a problem (or it wears out) and start using another.
There is not a custom maker worth squat anywhere who carries a production knife instead of his own. If there is I'd look somewhere else.:)
 
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asthetics aside one should consider many good custom makers do their own heattreating. instead of treating a hundred blades at a time they may do only one or two blades giving them much more precise control of the alloy performance. i like spydies & benchmades but their s30 against crusader forge triple temper or phil wilsons blades of s30 will make one think they are working with 2 totally different alloys.
dennis
 
RevDevil said:
If a custom knifemaker is offered money to design a knife for Company X, that is his prerogative to accept or decline the offer. Seeing as the economy is as tough as it is now, it would not make financial sense to refuse. Aside from that, a production knife company can be the ticket to propel a custom knifemakers career into the bigtime. It would be considered an honor for a production knife company to ask for a collaboration with a custom maker. I don't see the sword market is as being larger than the pocket/fixed knife market. It could also be that your sword maker friend is a little bitter. I could be wrong.

As people collect knives through the years, their tastes evolve. Some that start with the $10-$50 range (given enough interest and time) will eventually evolve to the CRk, Hinderer, Darrel Ralph knives. Not always, but if the interest in there, people find a way. You might not be at that level yet, or have enough interest to get there.
In my case, I own Sebenzas', XM-18s', Striders',etc. but I also love the designs that Spyderco and Kershaw release and I use them. I'm by no means a knife snob in the sense of "I will only use a knife that costs $400 and up". part of the fun for me is collecting and using all sorts of knives.

Mike Snody - Benchmade
Rick Hinderer - Gerber/ZT
Chris Reeve - CRKT (although there were issues)
Mick Strider - Buck
Gayle Bradley/Fred Perrin/Ed Shempp/ Kevin Wilkins - Spyderco
Click to expand...

You left out RJ Martin and Kershaw, one of the best collabs ever......
 
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