Custom On Auction

I was thinking that this was a normal FHM, that I'd pay 20-40 dollars for. It's a nice one, but I don't think that it's worth what it's gone for so far, or that the buyer or seller either know what it is or how much it's worth.

If I'm wrong about the origins of this knife, and it's some super-custom, please enlighten me...

:rolleyes:
 
Without a name, it's impossible to say anything. You're bidding on the proverbial pig in a polk.
 
Hey RGRAY,

You might want to take a look at: www.balisong.com

They have similar knives for sale with a price range of $80.00 - $90.00 (USD).

I cannot speak as to quality, I don't have one of this make/type. One model shown on the site looks very similar to the one offered in the auction.

See what ya think...LD :)
 
Hey Folks,

That knife is identical to the knife I won in the tee shirt contest from Armand. Very nice little three inch blade and good looking handles. It manipulates in excellent fashion, however, I would not classify it as a custom. Maybe a higher-end HMF.

Would probably save money going with Armand.

Best regards,
 
From the pins it doesn't look like it would stand up as a user. Looks nice but theres nothing special about the blade grind. Inserts are ok, if a bit bulky. Nice knife but I'd give it a good... $90 max.
 
As a preface, I'd like to say I am neither Filipino, or from the Philippines.., so those who are "experts" on the culture and/or very familiar with Batangas Province, be gentle! :) I have however been there twice, so I'd like to add "food for thought" for whatever it's worth.

Firstly.., out of thousands of Balis I saw while visiting, I never saw a "maker name" on a Batangas style Balisong.., although I believe some families may have a file marking that indicates their work. I have seen a few with a name or logo of some sort.., but these WERE NOT Batangas Balisongs..., and though some of them may have been produced in Olangapo, I understood that they were primarily made in Manila (a different animal so-to-speak).

I am 99% sure the Balisong on the auction that "RGRAY" asked about was built by a gentleman named Noel Medina Lanusa, who resides in "Buli" (Taal, Batangas Province) Though I can't vouch for the claim that he has made them for 35 years (as the add says), he is not a "Spring Chicken".., and to the best of my knowledge, the "finish" on his Balisongs is now mostly done by a man named Danny Chua, who also lives in the Philippines, but I don't know where exactly. I lost his email address :( ...but I think "Batangueno" knows Dan, so maybe he could chip in with more information if possible?

RGRAY's question was about "worth", so I just wanted to add my own perspective. I do have several Balis made by Noel (among other makers).., and have "flipped" them extensively. Like any FHM I've ever had, they do require "loosening up" (i.e., the process Clay describes on his site), rocking a wide-blade screwdriver in the blade-well to sort of ease the tightness of the pins. Mine work really well, are scary sharp.., and the stag inlays are gorgeous and well-pinned. Given the fact that Filipino craftsman use nails and/or thin stainless rods for the pins (if they can get 'em).., I don't know how long they will hold up if used constantly for manipulations. Mine are nice enough that re-pinning them wouldn't bother me a bit though.

The value of these pieces (to me).., is basically very simple. They represent what I think may be the last of a quickly fading "Cottage Industry" that gave birth to our hobby and love for these knives. The younger folks in Batangas, who would typically evolve from "helper", to "apprentice", to "journeyman" Balisong makers, seem to have less interest in carrying on the traditon, and leave to find more lucrative employment possibilites in the major cities.

My two visits (which span 30 years), made this very clear! In the middle 60's, the roadside vendors with these knives were literally everywhere in our fabled "Barrio Balisong" marketplace. This is not the case now, with vendors scattered sparsely among artisans that make woven bags, picture frames, etc. I was told (by many), that although there were "some" makers that live in Balisong, that the vast majority of these pieces were, and are now, make in Taal (which isn't far). Barrio Balisong is basically a "Market Place" for lack of a better or appropriate term.., and during my last visit, it was interesting to see that all those selling these knives were "older folks".., definitely not the case when I first visited.., and in my opinion, further proof of the decline of this Batangas style cutlery as a viable way of survival in a poor economy.

I have been lucky enough to see a few "family makers" at their craft (although not Mr. Lanusa).., and most of the blades I saw being crafted were fired and cut from what the locals called "race"...the caps of the housing that enclose the bearings on trucks (52100 I think). I also saw some made from truck spring materials (and don't know if the term "race" applies to this also) <~~ need help on this Batangueno/Armand/et.al. :) The closest thing I ever saw to a "Power Tool".., were a few grinding wheels with sort of generator set-ups that could be in the Smithsonian Institute.., and some that were powered by a family member peddling a bike <~~ REALLY! Other than that.., large retangular blocks used like an "Anvil" ~~> for pounding sheets of brass, ball-peen hammers, bastard files, small hand files, an open coal-burning stove for forging, oil buckets and tongs for dipping, red and green rouge called "SEBO" (I think)?..., and wads of T-Shirts they use to do hand polishing with the rouges -no Baldor Buffers-!! The sharpening stones I saw (only two), may have been carborundum, but not for sure? The only thing I can say in Tagalog is "I love you", so I passed on questions in most cases.

In fact.., 80-90% of the Balisongs I saw for sale were only sharpened for 1/2-3/4" from the blade-tip. Afterall, this knife was designed with the intent to puncture/stab.., and not for peeling veggies! The vendors I saw would sharpen the full length of the blade for what would be about $.50 in our exchange, but I really can't remember seeing many roadside vendors with fully sharpened blades unless someone ordered it that way.

As you all have seen countless times on various FHM's.., the insert materials (especially "bone") vary widely.., and I did see makers etching and coloring the striations on many inserts (i.e., enhancing the looks artificially).

Again.., someone jump in here, but the stag on those handles posted on BA.., are NICE, with natural curvature, and I believe they are probably from Mindoro, in the Mindanao area (south of the Philippines)where Abu Sayyaf is currently ruining everyone's day. My current understanding is that wild mountain deer indigenous to the Philippines ("Usa").., are highly protected and not hunted except illegally. There are also "cultured deer" raised on farmlands by those more wealthy, and perhaps some of the antler material can be harvested by Batangas folks?? I don't think they could afford it.., again if anyone knows I'd be interested. As with most "animal horn", I believe it is also safe to assume the darkened striations even on this REALLY NICE STAG may be enhanced to some extent with dyes, and that a chemical process of some sort is used to prevent shrinkage, deterioration, etc.

Sooooo..., what is it worth? Hmmmmm.., in my opinion it is worth whatever having a true piece of the history of this "hobby" is worth to the individual. The pieces I have are far and away superior to WWII models I have; in form, function, and balance.., and I'd trade (5) Jags for that one on BA (if I already didn't have a few). They are a strong knife given what I've mentioned above. They are not a representation of Bali-Song Cutlery, Pacific Cutlery Corp., or Benchmade, nor a Dobruski, Erickson, Ralph, Monarch, Tachyon, etc., and although the temptation to "compare" is real, and also valid if you only want one or two Balisongs, it is pretty amazing for me to fool around with mine.., giving thought to "the process" by which they became a Balisong!

The artisans that produce these knives are exremely proud of their work.., and will be happy to ram the blade-tip of their knives through a Peso to demonstrate their quality. <~~ Not a recommendation, I've never done it.., but have seen it done more than once with pieces similar to the one pictured on Blade Auction. They smile and show you it didn't hurt the knife, then raise the price. :)(that was a joke)

Conclusion: (Length of post??? <~~ I blame the Holdiay)

- The knives range in quality from "not-so-hot", to REALLY NICE!
- They are a truly HANDMADE piece of art.
- Their value is dependent upon the individual buyer/user.
- The availablity of REALLY NICE pieces will probably die out.
- Stag insert pieces will DEFINITELY become scarce...soon!
- If quality Batangas makers vanish, then what's the value?
- I like 'em, and enjoy owning knives made in this fashion.

Please feel free to add-to, subtract, divide or conquer anything I've said here!! I actually wish I'd had the foresight to travel with someone that spoke Tagalog, and/or had "local knowledge". Between trips I found very little difference whatsoever in the way knives were made, but sadly..., far fewer makers.

Hope everyone had a restful, safe holiday!


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
I agree with everything you said.

I was also a little hasty in saying 20.30 dollars.
This is one of the upper end FHM's I've seen, and if it sells for $150+ then that is really a tribute to the craftsman. There is no way that you could have a brass handled, stag insert, custom bali made in the USA for anywhere near that price. I have a few FHM's, older ones, tiny ones, bali-swords, strange ones... I love them all.
They were all well worth the price.

The stag on this one is really beautiful.

I in no way wanted to rag on this or any FHM.:)
 
I believe Pete knows more about FHMs after reading his thoughts on this. :)

Noel Medina has one of the major stores in Batangas. In fact the last time i visited, he was the only one who had a few balisongs with stag inserts. "Sungay" or horn as what we call them has been really scarce nowadays, specifically Deer horn. Most of the time Deer horn inserts are cut into small pieces and then combined with other materials like wood or plastic.

The balisong on auction really has a very nice Deer horn insert. Comparing to an FHM of same size but different insert, I would say that this would cost three to four times as much.

There are fewer good makers these days, since the money is not so good. The sellers earn more money than the makers. The makers' common reason is that they spent hours making balisongs only to earn a few pesos so what they do is look to make money elsewhere. But don't worry the craftsmanship is being passed to younger ones, not as good as the older ones but hopefully they'll eventually learn.

Believe it or not, China and Taiwan made balisongs are also big sellers in Balisong, Batangas. The shops that lined the streets also sell those we call here as China Cheapies, balis, folders and autos. Those unmarked are even passed off as Batangas-made to those innocent city folks or tourists. The sad thing is sellers make more money selling these Cheapies than selling FHMs, which would be bad news for makers again.
 
Nice of you to add some "local knowledge" for everyone. I really didn't pay much attention to all the Chinese junk when I was there last, and you make a very valid point about those pieces effecting sales of authentic Batangas made products.

Using myself for an example, I certainly know the real thing when it comes to the Balisongs, but could easily be tricked by imported articles like woven products, etc.

I suspect this is largely the case with "tourists" that may buy a knife there, and didn't really consider that in my remarks.

Appreciate the help. :)

"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Don't mention it. :)

My digital camera is arriving this weekend. I'll take lotsa pics once i passby Barrio Balisong again. Pics of makers and sellers and i'll try to post it here in the Balisong forum.
 
After reading Pete's post I think one could safely say that all HMF's are, to an extent, customs.

As for the stag inserts, they are simply beautiful. I also like the feel that they give the handle when they are in the hand.

Best regards,
 
I admit that I was too hasty when I said $20-40.00,
I was more inclined to see it go for $90.00-125.00

But, now it's up to $225.00 without reaching the reserve...

Is this the way all FHM's are turning?

if so, then I guess my collection has increased in value:) :D :)

Even my DeLeon custom FHM bali in the nice box was less than what this one's going for...
 
Batangueno....that would be very cool if you got a bunch of pictures on digital!!! I'd be more than happy to buy a disc of those from you ~~> REALLY!!! I had some very nice pictures from my trips both past and more recently, but I lost them all in a fire last year :(
I've always had the idea of turning my little den into sort of a Bali-Museum and it just wouldn't be "Politically Correct" without pictures of Batangas folks displaying their craft!

Blade 420....it is possible this seller on BA posted this knife as a "Test Market" case. I do see someone met the reserve at $250, and I do think that's "pushing the envelope" a bit. I will also say if the knife is anything like the matching set I've got, or several others made by Noel with Narra wood...Kamagong....etc., that $250 isn't going to bother the buyer a bit if they know how to break them in. As mentioned...mine handle like "silk", and I have a Narra wood clip-point Bowie of his that is TO-DIE-FOR!

Anyway thanks for the comments you guys, and keep me posted when you get those pictures Batangueno.., I really would be appreciative to have a disc and will make it worth you taking them! Very Very nice of you to offer! I especially think some of the younger enthusiasts on here would gain a new appreciation for "The Craft", and a heightened sense of the evolution of these fine knives!

"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Back
Top