Custom or Kit?

W

W.T. Beck

Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
1,411
Over the past year I have bought some knives from a custom maker, who advertises on his website that his knives are made by the stock removal method, and the blades are sent off to be heat treated. I will take the conservative approach and not mention the name of the maker.
Awhile back I ordered a Jantz Supply catalog, as I was interested to see if I could order some guards to put on some of my knives which currently don't have them. As I was reading the catalog, I noticed some 440C blades which look identical to the blades on this custom maker's knives. I mean they look exactly like the blades on this guy's knives.
There are three possibilities here: 1) This guy copies the Jantz Supply blades. 2) This guy is the maker of the Jantz Supply blades. or 3) This guy has lied on his website about making his own blades.
While I don't see anything wrong with selling knives made from kits or with factory blades, I do have a problem with someone advertising that he makes his blades when in fact he uses blades from a supplier. If you are shopping for a custom knife, I would recommend taking a look at the knife supply houses' blades first so you can recognize when a factory blade is actually used.
 
That would be disappointing. For a maker to sell an inexpensive kit blade while representing it as hand ground would be a fraudulent act in my mind.

Have you contacted the maker and asked? I would be curious as to the response. Perhaps you could email the particulars to one of the moderators like gus or blues and get an informed opinion privately.
 
I second that motion, share the name with someone who can either reassure you, or confirm this maker is lying about how he makes his knives. If he is a Guild member, you can be assured that he is making his own blades. If not, try to see if you can find examples of blades that Do Not look Kit blades.

There are more than a few guys selling kit knives as 'custom' knives on eBAY. Buyer beware!

Para
 
W.T. We seem to have a few of dem good ol' boys down here in Georgia doing that and it is disgusting. They seem to show up at the gun shows and get pretty upset when I mention that their work sure looks like some of the kits. :).

Some of the work is pretty good and they might make good users. Nothing wrong with doing it, it is the dishonesty that is disgusting.

There are a gagle of good makers (both well known and some what unknown outside of the local shows and flea markets) here in Georgia that would never dream of representing their work falsely and a few bad eggs here and there. The bad eggs seem to stick out like sore thumbs. Email me if I can help.
 
I have seen the same thing before many a times. I emailed one maker about it, and he said he used to use the kits, then started making his own blades, using the kits as a template because his customers liked the kit designs. Also, another maker made a liner lock knife using the DDR 605 kit as a template. it looks like a kit, but it isnt. This may be what happened. But i notice the same sort of thing happening constantly. I grind my own blades, some steels I HT myself, but most go out to Paul Bos because he is the best. Email me who the person is to see if it is the same person I am thinking of if you want.
 
Like it has been said before, you need to find out for sure. You did good by not naming his name in case he is just using the designs but is grinding them himself. No reason to cast a shadow on his reputation.

Simply ask him to grind something up of your own design. If he is a kit builder he will quickly turn the job down. But this is not fail safe. He can always contract with another maker to grind the blade. Also being a guild member is not failsafe proof. There have been several guild members that had their blades ground by someone else.

You may ask Jantz if he is a customer. You can ask who does his heat treating and give them a call to check out his story.

Unfortunatly this is becoming more and more common. There are handfulls of these clowns on Ebay, and boy do they get pissed when you call their lies. Check out auctions by mooser1111 (Bradley Custom Knives). He claimed they were customs until I theatened to report him to Ebay for fraud. Now his mentions it in passing on his "about me" page.

There is nothing wrong with a maker who does kits. I started out that way, I still do folder kits for fun, and even offer my custom ground blades in kit form.

But a maker has to be honest.
 
Thanks for all the offers to look into this matter but, I think I will avoid any controversial matters I don't have time for right now and continue to not reveal the name of the "maker". I wanted to bring this subject up because it is good for people to be aware of what is going on. One can protect oneself by taking a look at knife suppy websites to see what sort of blades they are selling. Then one can recognize the products which might be misrepresented.
 
In fact I did ask this man about making a custom knife with a different style of blade from those shown on his website. He never gave a definite answer. That is another reason I suspect his blades come from Jantz and perhaps other suppliers.
 
Hey Ron,

I am well aware of what fine quality knives you offer here--and on eBay. But when you blasted Frank Bradley (mooser1111) as a bogus custom seller on eBay, I thought that was a bit unfair. I like Frank, I have had one of his knives, and he is a straight shooter. Just like you.

As you said, Frank states right in his 'About Me' page his lack of ability to make the blades. In fact he addresses this quite well:

"...actually I'm not a knife maker, but more of a handle maker. I do not make my own blades, I don't have the desire or the equipment to do so. I use factory supplied blades, purchased from suppliers right here in the good old USA. I don't have the talent necessary to produce a blade half as nice as these already built items."

He has over 90 A+ ratings and NO negatives whatsoever. This definately means something. OK, are they 'really' Custom or handmade? This can of worms is being opened on every forum around. We've all seen the posts. So what if he uses the word Custom in his headings. My opinion is he makes a damn good knife for the money (between $100-$150 going prices), and has made a bunch of folks pretty happy. If he didn't he wouldn't have the feedback he deserves.

Les Robertson says it best: "DO YOUR HOMEWORK". Mooser1111's info on his knife listings are only one click away for the truth. If a buyer needs better, he shouldn't be looking on eBay. Your listings have always spoken for themselves well.

I don't see him as a threat to you. You are in a different, higher league. Don't namecall unnecesarily.

Coop
 
If this is the same person I'm thinking of he also posts here on these forums. I've never seen a Jantz catalog or one of his finished knives so another maker pointed it out to me. I don't think his name needs to be mentioned. I'm sure he knows others are aware of what he's doing. For a knife buyer the same rules apply to any other product, "Let the buyer beware". If you're not sure of a makers work or how his knives are made ask here. If you can't get a straight answer from him or one of the members here that have first hand experience with his knives I would steer clear. There are so many makers here at every price point for a true handmade knife, why would you even bother with one you're not sure of?
 
Coop,
I consider us friends and have no desire to cause any problems between the two of us, however Frank fired the first round on this one.

Frank did not have any mention of using imported factory blades on his "about me" page to start with. I was impressed with his handle work and e-mailed him with a complement. I also mentioned that he might want to consider buying hand ground blades, instead of the ones he was using. He came back with a tyrade of curses and insults on me, my work and my family. This guy could make a sailor blush with the language he used as an attack on me. Ya, it pissed me off that a complement to his handle work would be returned in such a disgusting display. So I simply stated that if he did not stop refering to his knives as custom and handmade that I would report him for fraud. The first thing he did was to update his about me page in a effort cover his butt. He then went on to insult me and my work in several of his listings. He actually referred to me as an ******* and butthead in his Ebay listings. He is not honest, he is not a "straight shooter", and he is not anything I would refer to as a gentleman.

BTW:His kit knives are not selling for $100-$150. Most are now going for over $200 with three in the last month selling for close to $500.

It is a buyer beware situation, but that does not excuse the behavior of improper business practices.
 
with a tyrade of curses and insults on me, my work and ...
Click to expand...

Sounds familiar, I have a few of those written to me by people I have never met that participate on BF. They range in rants of stuff that happened in forums that I have no control over to not favoring new makers to not favoring established makers. :)

The point Ron is making is honesty and it should be there from day one. I have no experience in this particular case, but I know without exception that I do not buy knives from folks I can not respect as makers and people. by sticking to that, over the years I have never purchased a knife that I regret owning.

Do a search on ebay with the words "custom knife" or "handmade knife"
You will see quite a varity of knives in the pages that show up. Most will be factory knives running the gambit of quality.
 
Hey Gus.:p :D ;)

BTW: I am sure that whoever this evil feind was that so unfairly went off on you was, came back later with his tail between his legs and begged forgivness:D
 
Originally posted by R.W.Clark
It is a buyer beware situation, but that does not excuse the behavior of improper business practices.
Click to expand...

You nailed it--right on the head. :) And if what you say about your experience is accurate, then Mr. Bradley has some *real* skeletons in his closet. Sorry to hear.

I am also 100% with Gus's proposition of a maker having personal integrity for my business. Gus, you would know.

My own experiences with F. Bradley have been very worthy: I bought one of his 'Customs' early this year (I was, even at that time, aware of his 'kit knife' format). Just last month I decided to resell it on eBay for funds for the upcoming NYC show. Just near closing, I had a query from a bidder about the blade material, so I emailed Frank. He got back to me ASAP with an answer, and then decided to take over the bidding. He ended up buying it back from me very close to what I bought it for. All the while he was very happy to do so. As a maker ready to buy back his own knife, this showed me integrity, and there was NEVER anything less than full courtesy extended back.

So, Ron, I offer this not to persuade you. You have every reason to be p***ed-off and vent and inform. This is just not the same man I've dealt with. The informed BF members can now make their own decisions.:rolleyes:

Coop

BTW--Good friends can always dialog and disagree. Thanks.:D
 
You know......come to think of it.......I have seen those TNT knives in the catologs offered as KITS :) ROLMFAO :D




OHHHHH, I KILL myself:p :rolleyes: :p :barf:
 
urafregnhoserdipshtcatalogknifeblankuserfraudurslf.........!!
u geek!!!!!!!!!! :):p:):p:)

:) Disclaimer:
The above is intended solely as amusement for the aforementioned parties and should not be construed as an attack upon his person! :p
 
Rw good for you. Glad to see someone with the balls to name names. For the rest of you pu.ssies ywho will not name names, all I can say is be a man or shut up.
 
I didn't realize I would stir so much up, especially since I did name the maker. Just for the record, it is not any of the people discussed in the previous posts, and not anyone in Georgia.
I don't think I need to name any names to offer helpful advice to anyone shopping for a custom knife. Just take a look at the knife supply catalogs, advertisements, or websites and and you will know what they offer. Then if you recognize a blade advertised as made by the maker, you can question him about it or shop elsewhere.
 
95% of these kit blade are from taiwan, japan, or germany. so i doubt this fellow is making them for jantz supply. there are several website ( custom makers) that you will find the stuff in jantz or K&G catologs. a very nice gentleman named frank MCgill who is like a father to me in some ways. he's old enough and had his right foot blow off over germany while a radio man in a B-17 taught me a lot about handle fitting. was unable to grind out his own blades. due to hand deforming arthtis. he had the late bob engraft grind his patterns or got them from K&G. the first thing he would say to anyone that wanted a knife. WAS i DON'T grind the blade.i finish it and make the gaurd and handle. thats what counts. up front no B.S.
 
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