Custom quality

[fishbulb]

I have read innumerable threads on the forums about the outstanding quality and fit and finish of handmade knives, especially when compared to that of mass-production pieces. I woud like to know how this is possible. Modern metal forming machines are extremely accurate, more accurate than any human could be, even a very skilled one.

I know that the production machines that we have at work are accurate down to 1/10,000 of an inch, and these are about a decade old. There is simply no way that the human body can compete with that kind of precision. We can barely even sense a difference of that magnitude, much less machine to it. From a strictly practical point of view it should be impossible for a handmade knife (or anything else) to rival a machine piece.

What intrigues me about this is that the opposite is apparently true. From everything that I've read, the quality of handmade pieces is much greater than production products. The only explainations that I can think of is that the knifemakers are better able to adjust for the variances in their pieces due to the handmaking process. For example, on two identical custom knives made by the same guy the parts would not be interchangeable with each other, but would be formed perfectly for the other components in that particular knife. I would greatly appreciate any insight or opinions on this question.

 

[PhilL]

I'm personally not looking for machine made precision in my custom knives. What I want is a custom knife made with the materials I want by the best maker I can afford. It's the difference between a hand made suit and one off the rack, that's what makes them special to me and worth owning. There are some knives that I own that will probably never be able to be mass produced, my Ed Fowler Pronghorn for example. As far as fit and finish goes I expect from a maker the best knife he can make. There is no such thing as a Perfect Handmade Knife, ask any maker. But, you have to look real hard on a really fine custom knife. Nothing wrong with production knives, but if you want a one of a kind custom find the best maker you can and enjoy the craftsmanship of a human artist.

 

[UnixDork]

I think the point you're missing is not the capability of the factories to make mass-produced knives, but what level of quality control is acceptable to them. I worked as a consultant in the past to a global manufacturer of a whole slew of products. The plant I worked at ran their production lines at more than twice the speed of their competiton. This resulted in more quality control problems, but more importantly, it resulted in higher profits, since less wages went into each individual piece. There is a "sweet spot" of quality and production cost that mass-producers try to hit. It's not about quality, really, it's about "good enough" and making a profit.

This is also a good explanation of why handmade knives cost so much.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Each custom maker has his dream, the visions he seeks, that part of himself he wishes to come to life in his knives. This is what makes them special, sometimes. Through the knife you and the maker have the opportunity to share that something special. My knives go places I will never see, share good times and bad with their new families. This is opportunity is an honor to be cherished.

 

[Happy Camper]

Good question! I see a two fold advantage to custom knives:

1. The custom knife makers are like high end audio manufacturers. While the production companies balance the profit margin and target price point with economy of manufacture, custom knife makers produce the best knife they can - regardless of how much wasted material is produced, or how many steps are necessary at each stage of the process.
2. Custom knife makers can produce a knife that exactly fits the individual's wants, as opposed to tooling up for a mass production intended to adequately target the average person in a niche.

The two of those coupled together mean that while a production knife version of a custom is possible (kasper companion, bagwell bowie, to name a few), in most cases the expense of tooling up is most lucrative for a one size fits all type knife, made with as few steps and as little cost as possible in order to sell at the price expected for a production knife.

When you look through the pages of knife magazines, or brouse through custom knife sales sights such as

http://www.knifeart.com/customknives.html

you can immediately see the wider variation of designs, and the higher level of equivalent tooling (and subsequent dwell time) such knives would require to reproduce with all the details and shape subtleties both functional and aesthetic.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

To tell you the truth I don't really care iof a custom knife has the precision of build of a CNC machine. I like the fact that my knife is going to be a little different than every other knife that has been done by the maker of my knife. The fact that I can get it made with the materials that I want is also something I like better than having to take a knife as it comes. To tell you the truth though, the thing I like about custom knives the most is the interaction with the maker of the knife. That is something that you just don't get with production knives.

You may get a finely made knife form a production manufacturer. It will do everything you will ever need a knife to do, but to me it just doesn't give me the enjoyment that I get from a great custom knife or from having the early work of someone that I think is going to a great maker of the future. Just my opinion, but when it comes to what I want in knives, who elses opinion really matters?

 

[Crayola]

The Buck/Strider collaboration folder has "rough: or "sharp" edges on the scales and such. For the factory to bevel these edges, it would have raised the price $30. Custom makers can do these extra features because they aren't, for the most part, trying to fit within certain price points. This is onlu one example of where the quality difference exists between custom and factory knives.

 

[Ken Cook]

A lot of the difference between Custom and Production knives can be summed up this way.
Production is Science
Custom is Art.

When you build any mechanism by production means, every dimension has a "Tolerance." The drawings may call for a dimension of .175, and then right after that, there will be a notation that says (+ - .003)

Okay, so you think .003 isn't much to sweat about.

However, there is a phenomenon known as "Tolerance Stack-up."

Say you have 10 parts to assemble. Each one has a tolerance of + - .003 and each one is -.003. The end result is that the entire assembly is out of tolerance across the board and loose as a goose.

A custom maker doesn't necessarilly build to a knife to tolerance. He hand fits it. He tries very hard to get everything "just so." He fits it, he takes it apart, looks it over, checks how it feels, gives it a file stroke here, a stone stroke there, and when he's finished, it's as close to "perfect" as he can possibly make it.

That's Art.

 

[pjenkins00]

amen.

 

[fishbulb]

I just want to clarify that I did not mean to imply that I have anything against custom knives or people who enjoy them. As soon as I can round up some cash I will probably become one. I was just looking for an explaination about quality.

I'm an engineer so I know all about tolerances and QC and price point economics. I think that perhaps I might be used to working with much tighter tolerances than production knives are manufactured to. I think Ken Cook gave the best explaination with "Production is science, Custom is art".

Once again, sorry if anybody thought I was implying anything negative about customs.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Originally posted by fishbulb
perhaps I might be used to working with much tighter tolerances than production knives are manufactured to

Then again, there are differences among production knives, also. Case makes some nice-looking knives, but you wouldn't compare their tolerances to those of a Microtech, let alone a Sebenza.

 

[wolfmann601]

So, there is a difference between a "custom" and a "handmade" knife. A Custom is made by the maker for a specific person. A Handmade knife is a knife made by a maker for any person. But as far as quality, there is just no comparison that can be made between production and a knife made by hand.
There are several production knives that I like alot, but there are many "Handmade knives" that I love and lust for.
Handmade or Custom, either choice, is a pure piece of art that someone in a workshop sweated over, cursed over, sang over and spent weeks, maybe Months making perfect. A production shop just makes noise and turns out a profit......wolf