Custom vs. Production liner locks

I

Interloper

Joined
Sep 6, 1999
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58
Are custom liner locks any better than production? I have no custom knives I was hoping someone who has custom liner lock knives could expand on this. Are the liners thicker in a custom? Who makes the best production liner locks as a company? I know that the Benchmade AFCK and the Spyderco Wegner and Military are icons to some knife knuts. What makes these liner locks so unique? I hear that the Al Mar SERE is held in similar regard. What makes a liner lock trustworthy to the user and buyer? I have a Camillus Cuda Tanto and a CRKT Crawford/Kasper. The liner on the Cuda failed only after throwing it in a tree.

Thanks again.
 
I've seen both good and bad examples of both custom and production liner locks. I think you have to take a close look before you buy, if possible.

My SERE 2000 has a liner lock that is as absolutely rock solid as anything I have ever seen, custom or production.

On the other hand I handled a custom piece from a well-known maker that had obvious slop and wobble that was shocking. And it was a brand new piece in a dealer's showcase.

Bottom line? Check it out before you buy.
 
I agree with Knifenerd. I have seen quite a few custom knives with poor craftmanship. you really have to hold a knife to know if it's well made. From what I have heard, though, you probably will not find a Darrel Ralph or a Kit Carson folder with poor quality or a faulty lock up.
 
I agree with the last 2 statements. Check the locking mechanism first before you buy. Also, keep in mind that not all folding knives can take the abuse of being thrown at a tree. In fact, many production companies advise not to do so.
 
I too agree with the above. There's no reason to assume custom liner locks are better than production. I see good and bad examples of both. And just as in the production arena, do not assume the "big names" are making better liner locks than the not-so-big names -- I've seen atrocious examples from some of the biggest names in custom folders.

Also, since it's reliability and not strength that's the biggest concern, don't assume that "thicker liner" automatically means more reliable -- it doesn't. Looking at the thickness of the liner, or how solid the lock-up feels, doesn't guarantee you anything, be sure to actually test things out!

Joe
 
Makers get very fussy about the lockup on their knives. A very well known gentleman was telling me recently that at shows he dreads having the "flickers" show up. These idiots rudely grab a knife off the table often without asking permission and flick it open hard. What happens is that the lock sometimes can get a little sticky because the titanium of the liner galls against the steel of the tang.

When the knife has been flicked and slightly damaged in that way it no longer will perform at its absolute optimum, so he puts it under the table and brings it home to fix it. As he says, when a real knowledgeable paying customer shows up they are looking for these tiny nuances like sticky locks, and if they find one they won't buy the knife. SO rather than risk his very hard earned reputation by ignoring the now slight defect and leaving the knife out for sale, he has to pack it up and schlep it home to fix it thereby leaving one less knife that he possibly could have sold sitting on his table.

Don't flick knives at knife makers tables. Don't throw folding knives at trees unless they are cheap POS imported crap. Respect the time and effort that a maker has put into his knives. A liner lock will only perform well if it is not abused.

Think of a custom knife as though it were a hot rod car. Some maintenance is required to keep it performing at its very best. If you beat on it, expect it to eventually break.

Jot Singh Kalsa makes folders with .032 liner locks that lock up really nice and solid. It's not the size or thickness of the lock but the way it is made.
 
Peter, you are right on with your caution against "flicking". Check out the Chris Reeve website and see his comments on the "flicking" practice.

Bottom line: Don't do it. And that is from the maker of some of the toughest folders known to mankind.
 
The only custom liner lock I own is a Ryan Model 7. It is more like a frame lock with G 10 scales added. The titanium frame is very substantial. Steve builds them to lock solidly with at least 60% overlap of the locking surfaces. With a little wear they get 80%+ engagement of the lock. Mine feels extremely secure. I don't have a production liner lock that seems comparable.
 
saw ya had a CRKT kasper - i have the CRKT version, and the crawford custom version also - the custom version has a liner lock more recessed into the handle, so it cant be accidentally released - and no lawks like the crkt, imho it does not need it - have had probs w/CRKT locks, no probs w/my crawford though - if ya get a custom from a reputable well known maker, they will jump thru there a$$ to make ya happy, they dont want any junk floating aroundm imho- try elishiwitz, crawford, polkawski, emerson the old guard of makers, and ya wont have probs w/there lock, and they will fix it in the rare instance ya do....it is hard to explain, but the quality of the crawford is just so much higher than the CRKT in every respect, as it should be at $450 - the CRKT companion and the polkawski companion are closer in quality but still the custom is better by far imho (i have both companions also) but the difference is not so marked as on the folders, just no comparison imho on the folders.....




sifu
 
Sifu and I have had a disagreement about this before, so I'll try to be more judicious this time around :)

I agree with Sifu that good custom makers will jump through hoops to make you happy. If that means fixing an unreliable lock, they'll do it. The makers that Sifu cited are all excellent about customer service, from all reports. However, of the 4 makers he specifically mentioned, I have held multiple unreliable liner locks from 3 of them [although I have reason to believe that 2 of them have increased their liner lock reliability in recent years]. So I will re-emphasize my point that going with a "big name" maker doesn't provide you with any more assurance of lock reliability than going with any other maker, though granted that the big names tend to be especially good about customer service. If you're buying the folder for real use, be sure to test it thoroughly [this is a good idea no matter what kind of lock it has, I test my integrals and axis locks as hard as anything else], and be sure to test folders with famous names on them as hard as you test any others.


BTW, the best liner locks I have personally handled were made by a guy doing mid-cost (~$750 3+ years ago) gents folders. The liners were very thin. I sat at the guy's table for an hour, as he took knives and absolutely torture tested them in front of me, twisting and torquing the little things to within an inch of their lives, and at times I saw liners bending so ominously I thought something had to snap. Not only could we not induce a failure, but the fit hadn't even loosened up at all after we were done!

Joe
 
I agree with the sentiment here with regards to not flicking a dealers knives open.I would consider it rude behavior.I think most people, makers and collectors alike would agree that flicking,spinewack tests accelerate wear overtime with minimal benefit to even performing such a test.I would be concerned though that a few flicks would cause a custom maker enough of concern to pull the knife out of sale to bring home to fix.If the knife is that sensitive to a few flicks, the quality in my opinion would be questionable.If I was buying a tactical folder,this I would not consider a "hard use knife" The knife would have to beable to endure much more than flicking to be my companion.
 
Originally posted by Peter Atwood
What happens is that the lock sometimes can get a little sticky because the titanium of the liner galls against the steel of the tang.

When the knife has been flicked and slightly damaged in that way it no longer will perform at its absolute optimum, so he puts it under the table and brings it home to fix it.
Click to expand...

What's the fix? I have a custom folder I've been flicking a lot that was galling (or at least felt sticky) yesterday, but not at all today. Trying to figure out what's going on with it.

Mike
 
Originally posted by TOMBSTONE
I would consider it rude behavior.I think most people, makers and collectors alike would agree that flicking,spinewack tests accelerate wear overtime with minimal benefit to even performing such a test.
Click to expand...

My guess is that you'd find that here on bladeforums, most people believe spinewhack tests are very important. You'll also find makers and producers who believe the same.

BUT, of course in the context of what you do at a maker's table, we have a whole 'nother story. When I walk up to a maker's table, I ask him if I can handle his knives. I will open his knife slowly, noting how well the ball detent works, the smoothness of the action, and the resulting lockup. I normally don't do anything more than that. From time to time, I engage in a conversation with a maker about his lock reliability, and if I'm explicitly encouraged by the maker to test his knife further, I'm thrilled to pieces to do so.

Anyway, the summary is: always be extra-gentle with a knife on a maker's table, unless he explictly tells you not to be extra-gentle.

Joe
 
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