Custome Field Knives vs. Factory, let's hear your opinions

[Spark]

I've been looking over the various threads in here lately, and I've read that some of your wouldn't trust your lives with a factory life, and just as many wouldn't with a custom.

Personally, I'd like to hear your reasons for each, but to tell you the truth, if it were me, I'd go with the factory knife over the custom one. This is for several reasons:

1. Cost. Let's face it, a knife is a tool like any other, and therefore shouldn't be so pricey that it is no longer considered expendable. If I'm paying almost $1K for a field knife, I'm going to think twice before I use it for some chores, jamming it in machinery, etc. I'm not going to be as attached to a PX KaBar.

2. The factory knife is easily replaced should I drop or lose it.

3. SOP may prevent me from carrying my favorite SuperSlicer 9000 custom Bowie.

Etc etc etc, the list goes on. Recently I read on our sister forum, The Firing Line, that Harry Humphries himself, of GSGI carries a KaBar on his field gear.

Say what you want, but my opinion lies with expediency on this one.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Well, it's important to keep things in perspective here. If I were on long range recon duty, digging with my knife, punching holes in steel drums, possibly leaving my knife in the swamp, risking having someone else from the unit steal my knife, then it's perfectly sensible to stick with a kabar.

Rambo-dreams aside, however, I'm a civilian. Embarassingly enough, I don't even *own* a steel drum to puncture or an ammo crate to pry open

More importantly, I don't lose my knives, pretty much.

Furthermore, my interest in knives isn't strictly utilitarian. I wouldn't spend all this dang time on the forums if I didn't have a deeper enthusiasm for knives.

Generally, I favor whatever knife does the job best, at a price that doesn't hurt *too* bad if I ding the edge up bad or something. And sometimes, I'll favor a knife that does things with style. Sometimes this means a factory knife, because truth be known some factory knives have excellent edge geometry and overall quality for their intended purpose. Other times it's a custom, either because it does the job better, or it does the job with STYLE, or both.

Like Spark, I'm not headed out to the field with a $1000 knife. A $300 custom, though? You bet! Provided it's a good fit for the job. Other times, I'm just as happy with my factory-made A.G. Russell Deerhunter or a $10 machete.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com

 

[Marcus]

IMHO "the field" is the last place I want to limit myself to gear that was made with an eye on the profit margin first and performance last. Yes some factory offerings are quite good,but they`re not as good as a no compromise custom built for the job. Is there really any doubt that a Busse,MD, BlackCloud etc. knife is more durable than a KABAR? As for price,who cares? So you spend xxx dollars on a knife and you beat the hell out of it,is that any worse than spending xxxxx dollars on a race car and hammering it at the track on weekends? To me it`s kinda like running the Baja200 with a Kia Sportage just so you don`t mess up your Rod Hall modified race Hummer. YMMV but that`s my story and I`m stickin to it.

Marcus

 

[Lewis]

Aong with the much debated definition of "custom," you really have to define "field." I spent 4 1/2 years on active duty in the Coast Guard where the field was in, on or around water. I then spent 3 years in a "field" MP unit in the National Guard, where the field was what most people would consider the "field" Today, my "field" is the suburbs of a midsize city and the 2 knives that I carry are definitely a part of my self defense package. Normally it is a fairly high dollar folder in the right pants pocket. Knives from RJ Martin, Allen Elishewitz, Chris Reeve knives, and a host of high quality production knives have been there. Right now it is a D/A clip point SOCOM. It seems that folders in the $300-400 range are generally plenty good enough to bet your life on without being ridiculously expensive. Between my body armor and my shirt I keep a true custom neck knife made to my specs by Ernie Mayer. it only cost $130, but it is a true custom, go figure. I think that the more pride I have in something, the more likely I will be to have it with me when I really need it. Because of that, I have no problem carrying my expensive (to me) knives. The one time I have really needed a knife on duty, (to cut loose a person who had been tied up and left in a car in a hospital parking lot) I happened to be carrying a Spyderco Military, and it did the job wonderfully.

Lewis

 

[Sal Glesser]

Are we talking fixed blade or folder? To assume that all custom made knives are equal in strengh, reliability and attitude of maker is unrealistic. It is likewise unfair to assume that all factory made knives are equivalent.

There are custom makers that make knives primarily for profit and there are also factories that have exccellent crew that care and do a fine job.

There are few custom foldering knives that will "break" along side Spyderco's knives. Heck, our lightweight Native lock holds over 500 lbs and our G10 Police and Civilian are over 600 lbs. We've tested both factory and custom folders that broke at less than 100 lbs. I've had custom folders close up just by tapping the back of the blade on the table (do not do this test with a knife until after you have paid for it and not in the presence of the maker or his customers!)

In defense of factories;
1) Through volume, factories have the opportunity to refine and evolve materials, design and mfg methods at a rate that is probably 100 times grater that a custom maker.

2) factories have the equipment to adequately test materials and design strengths (Spyderco's euipment will give us a computer readout on how and when the part failed along with inch/lbs of pressure required).

I think that here-in lies the value of a good name and a good reputation, custom or factory.
sal

 

[Marcus]

As usual Sal you make a very good case. I didn`t mean to step on any toes,my post refered primarily to fixed blades where lock strength etc. isn`t applicable. With a fixed blade strength can more easily be determined by the type,design,and heat treating of the steel. Here a quality custom stands head and shoulders above most factory blades IMO. Where folders are concerned your points are certainly true especially in light of all the new factory "super locks" vs. many of the custom guys linerlocks. Marcus

 

[chrisJohn]

Yet another near and dear topic to me.

As for the KBAR. Great knife for under thirty bucks. Cold Steel SRK, another great performer, in the 40/50 dollar range. But, the KBAR with fracture under great stress, like attempting to pry out a case from an M60, or more mundane but just as important, cutting pallet webbing. Broken two KBARs doing those exact things. But, you can always get another...

Now as for a Custom, there are few custom knives that really outperform the high end production knives. Talking mainly about fixed blades. Custom folders in my experience have been far superior to any factory offering, but I am very picky about what folders I buy, for example: 458 Magnum from Greg Lightfoot.

I hate saying this publically, because this particular maker had enough rabid fans to keep his grinders going for decades, but I feel strongly about this particular knife as well. I bought a Mad Dog ATAK2 and put it through its paces. It simply did the job better than any other fixed blade I had ever owned. Stayed sharper long, chopped like hatchet maybe even a little better, great prybar too.

Anyway, the best I could do to damage it was blunt the tip a but while digging a cat hole.
So, IMHO, the ATAK series can't be beat for field use. When I mean field use, that is what I mean. Keep in mind that different activities take different knives just like you change your clothes between the office and running a marathon.

Spark brought up a great point. Unit SOP prevents most fixed blades from being carried. Try jumping with a fixed blade on your web gear. It won't happen. Done more than my share of knee-benders for that mistake.

Seriously, a CPT might be able to sneak by, but lower enlisted folks, no way. I never spent time in my home unit as I was always being farmed out TDY to augment other folks, but with out exception every commander asked me about the knives I carried, and why they were necessary. The questions usually stopped after something needed cutting, like immediately, and the cutter ended up being me. Real life experience here, was at NTC, FT Irwin, CA, running around with 4th ID during the Force XXI exercise. Wow, talk about fraud, waste and abuse, anyway, this kid fell off an expando-van and into a cammo net. He freaked out, brought that section of net down, but was so tangled, that he actually was beginning to restrict his breathing. Cut him out with a Spyderco Police, that coincidently was stolen my next trip to the field showers!

Ok, rambled long enough, but in conclusion it depends on the knife in question if it is worth carrying. Some are works of art, others, workhorses. Don't ask a tool to do something that it wasn't designed for.

[This message has been edited by chrisJohn (edited 17 January 1999).]

 

[tobii3]

Okay, so what if we carry a custom fixed blade and two factory folders?? I have found this to be the best of both worlds. Depending on the situation, this usually covers every aspect a knife would be needed for.

The reason I have/trust a custom? First, it's mine. Ha Ha. What I mean is, no one else has "my" knife. Everyone might have a "px kabar", or a cold steel SRK, but they look like any other "px kabar or cold steel SRK. A custom knife is just that. Custom. Same reason people have "custom" wheels on their cars. It's what they want. Not something they have to settle with. If you like the blade of knife "a", but the handle of knife "b", and the size of knife "c", which knife would you settle for? With a custom, there is no decision needed. You can have your cake, and eat it too.
As for carrying a $1K knife to the field, who does this? And why? If you have that kind of money to spend on a knife, why are you going to "the field"?? I would buy a $300 knife, which would do the same thing, and spend the rest on a vacation when I came out of "the field". The choice is yours on this subject.
One note: a good custom knife doesn't get "lost" or "stolen". If you are careless enough to leave it in such a situation, it's your own fault. My "baby" has been in South America, Central America, and untold trips around the U.S. And it's still with me now. Unfortunately, here it resides in a drawer in my villa. Long story on that. Regardless, I have done things with my "baby" that guys with factory knives wouldn't imagine. But, as Carlos Hathcock put it, the best use for a knife is spreading Peanut butter on your crackers. Which gives me an idea.....what kind of knives are in your kichen????

 

[bruce]

Hey guys, lets cut out the acronyms! Since you are in the military you should know that you may only use an acronym in written correspondence if you write the entire name out the first time you use it. So I will translate acronyms from the previous posts from chrisJohn and tobii3.

CPT--Captain

TDY--Temporary Duty (I am assigned to Fort XXX but have been assigned for a short while to Camp YYY--usually 1 to 179 days)

4th ID--4th Infantry Division (A mechanized force of armored personnel carrier infantry and tanks residing at Fort Carson, Colorado. Or is it Fort Cartoon?

NTC--National Training Center--The Army's desert warefare training center 45 miles from Barstow, California. Doesn't matter whether you are there in the summer or winter, it ain't fun!

PX--Post exchange, the local k-mart type store on most military posts (Army) or bases (Navy, Marines, Air Force). The other services use BX (base exchange).

I got spanked in another thread for using military terms without defining them. Hopefully, me and my military buddies will try to do better.

 

[Samurai6]

I am generally of the opinion that the best production folders are a better value than custom made ones. There seems to be a much larger gap in the average quality of production and "custom" fixed blades though. And the funny thing is, it seems like the price gap is smaller. You can get an excellent hand made fixed blade for $200 from the right maker. In the "custom" realm, you can get much better heat treatment, steel selection, and variety of design than in the production market. Fixed blades are one area where I would always look for the best bang for the buck from private makers.

Harv