Customer perceptions of gold filled wire

T

Travis Fry

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Jun 11, 2010
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I realize this is a bit of a niche question. I've been making a few daggers recently, and I like doing the fluted handles with twisted wire wraps. Up to now, I've used Argentium silver and bronze, and my next will have .999 fine silver. I'll likely stick with fine or Argentium for silver going forward, since neither tarnish much and both aren't very costly.

Gold, on the other hand, is EXTREMELY costly. Comparison: for my upcoming dagger, fine silver will cost me about $3.50. 24K gold will cost me about $380, 14K about $160. Enter "gold fill."

For those not in the know, “gold-filled” is a USA industry standard that legally requires 1/20th, or 5% pure gold by weight. It’s a strictly regulated process that involves pressure bonding multiple layers of solid 14k gold with extreme heat over a core of high quality jeweler’s brass. Cost wise, it's about 3x what I'd pay for fine silver (around $10), but WAY less than I'd pay for solid gold.

So here's my question:

Assuming full disclosure (required) concerning whatever materials I use, do y'all think it'd be better to continue to use fine silver over gold filled (assuming the color didn't matter, for this argument)? I'm concerned that the perception of gold filled as cheap compared to solid gold would make it SEEM less valuable than "pure" silver, even though the opposite is true.

Am I over thinking this?

Just for grins, here's the handle I'm working on.
IMG_E0002-scaled-e1629406415612.jpg
 
Travis Fry said:
I'm concerned that the perception of gold filled as cheap
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A jewelry maker that recently did a demo for the NWBA made the comment that the main reason why he does most of his stuff in fine silver and gold is that the time to produce the piece is no different, but the price he can get for the gold is WAY higher than silver or copper or other cheaper alloys.
Travis Fry said:
Am I over thinking this?
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Probably, it all depends on what customer base you are targeting. If you can sell the knife with gold wire for an additional $1000+, then I'd use the gold.
 
My impressions of gold fill. 40 years ago when I was a teen I gave my girlfriend a "gold plated" necklace and locket. After a year or so some of the plating had worn off on the chain and locket just from the wear of them rubbing on one another. Fortunately she dumped me and I didn't have to buy her a real 14k replacement locket.

My fear now would be that the gold fill would wear through on the handle of the knife from use and the sheath. There is a lot more contact/pressure in a hand and sheath than on a necklace and I wonder how quickly it would wear through the gold and show the brass.

So personally, I would be a bit leery if I were purchasing a knife with gold fill....but this is just one teenager's experience from a long time ago.
 
Randydb said:
My impressions of gold fill. 40 years ago when I was a teen I gave my girlfriend a "gold plated" necklace and locket. After a year or so some of the plating had worn off on the chain and locket just from the wear of them rubbing on one another. Fortunately she dumped me and I didn't have to buy her a real 14k replacement locket.

My fear now would be that the gold fill would wear through on the handle of the knife from use and the sheath. There is a lot more contact/pressure in a hand and sheath than on a necklace and I wonder how quickly it would wear through the gold and show the brass.

So personally, I would be a bit leery if I were purchasing a knife with gold fill....but this is just one teenager's experience from a long time ago.
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I hear that. Gold fill and gold plated are very different though. Gold plate might have a couple of layers of molecules electroplated on. Gold fill is solid gold for the outer 20% of the total circumference, so much thicker.
 
I have used the gold fill on several pieces and been very happy with it.
Even twisting it tightly it showed no sign of giving out or looking like anything but gold.
 
I'd think using 24K gold would totally depend on the customer - "IF" they are happy to pay the extra $500 or so for gold, then go for it. BUT - for a spec knife.... Wooo, that would depend on your usual customer base. As said before, "gold filled" is not even in the same ballpark as "gold plated". For the type of knife that is using twisted wire in a fluted handle - I don't see wear as being a problem. That's a display knife - in my mind at least.

Of course there are folks who can drop $3K in a camp knife the way I'd drop $30 in a camp knife - and they would use the $3K knife hard.

I'd think survey a few of your customers who you have a "friendly" relationship with as ask them their thoughts on "gold filled" vs "24K gold, giving them the price difference and a good explanation of what gold filled is.

Ken H>
 
Most people can't comprehend what gold-filled is.
That said, it will hold up just fine, and it will look exactly like the karat gold. 14K gold filled looks exactly like 14K.
I make belt buckles out of it.
24K gold is really too soft for most use.
 
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I used 24k filled.
Rio grande has lots of gauges and options.
You can't beat that pure gold color.
 
Travis Fry said:
I agree about the color, but I'm only seeing 12K and 14K at Rio and 14K only at Stuller. Interested in where to find 24K filled.
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Sorry, I'm away from home and was confused. I had some 24k foil for another purpose.
Looking at my old invoice the filled wire was 14k.
It looks great and no doubt is stronger than pure gold. I priced out the pure stuff after following the Culver tutorial and ended up going with filled.
 
24k it too soft.

I hate the marketing BS of gold filled. it's just a bs term for plated.


Especially on a wear surface, I like the pure silver.


I like this
Personally, i'd say either go all in with gold, or don't bother. Pass the cost of the gold directly onto the customer
 
14K gold filled is at a minimum 5% gold in outer thickness by law. The core is a base metal (usually brass). You can get 10% gold filled, too. It works, ages, and looks like 14K gold unless you sand it down or otherwise abrade it to expose the core.

Gold plated is an entirely different thing, with a few millionths of a MM of gold over a base metal.

One great use of gold filled wire is making twisted wire handles and fluted inlay. 14K yellow gold 22 gauge wire is $50 a foot., yellow gold filled is $16 for 5 feet. Trust me, it will wear as long as 14K.

Yellow gold filled is also available in sheets which is good for habaki. A 14 karat habaki costs more to make than I used to get for a whole wakizashi. Today, I use fine silver with gold inlay.

Quite a few years back I made this red gold dagger. It had a blade of red gold, guard of yellow and white gold, and a handle of yellow and white twist wire. There was a red tourmaline in the pommel. Engraving was by Ken Hurst. It eventually sold for $12K I think I could almost scrap it for that today.
 

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I think a dagger with a spiral fluted handle is generally not intended for hard use. Also, the twisted wire is tightly drawn and pressed into the channels and so doesn't get much wear from being held. Finally, having worked with this material in a few applications including some similar to this, but also hammering it into carved inlay on steel, I think you would have to work pretty hard to expose the core.
I say try the filled wire as it's cheap. If you don't like it, you aren't out much and can redo it in solid gold wire.
 
Could go either way on the wire. EXCELLENT! craftsmanship on your wood work. I surely hope you will post pictures of the finished product.
 
i would go with silver unless a customer requests the other and does not mind paying for it.
 
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