cutting boards and knife-dulling

M

Mochiman1

Joined
Aug 23, 1999
Messages
449
a knowledgeable cook recently told me that those milky white plastic cutting boards are far less dulling to blades than are wooden ones. Can this be true? I always thought the plastic ones were MORE dulling.
 
I've had better luck with plastic boards maintaining my edges. Also, the plastic ones certainly are more hygenic. Wood, being porous, can hold some nasty bacteria if not properly cleaned and maintained.

------------------
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
My opinion is that the soft plastic is better on the edge than wooden ones. Cutting boards really serve two other primary purposes, protecting your expensive and hard to replace counters, and minimizing contamination. Ones good for knives are a "bonus"

The plastic ones are also dishwasher safe, another nice bonus.

When I had my kitchen redone, I was given two Corian cutting boards from some remnants of my kitchen counter. Those bad boys dull knives in a big way. They are also available commercially now. Pretty, durable and bad news on knives.

My biggest complaint about wood cutting surfaces is that they have a greater tendency to hold on to flavors such as onion or garlic, and then transfer those flavors to something else. Fruit is especially susceptible to picking up these flavors.

Someone will surely post a link to the college study that showed wood boads have some tendency to destroy bacteria over time. This is only an initial study and really lacks the full force of a scientific fact. It has not been fully researched yet.

For health purposes the Health Department of most states requires restaurants to use the plastic because it can be sterilized chemically much more reliably than the wood can be sterilized because of the porous nature of wood.

If cleanliness/sterility is important to you, buy two or three cutting boards. Each should be used solely for certain tasks, one only cuts raw meats, one only fresh fruit/vegetables, one only cooked foods and so on.

As a last convenient source of kitchen disinfecting, look for dishwashers that are rated for sanitization. My Bosch achieves and holds temps of 161 which kills salmonella and so on. That temp is also murder on wood and some plastics so you have to trade off convenience and cost against other considerations. Lots of sink dishwater and dishwasher heat settings are still within the temperature tolerances of some nasty bugs.

My vote, the milky plastic. Also available impregnated with Microban, an antibacterial agent for some self sterilizing behavior.

Phil
 
The best antibacterial agent is quick and thorough washing, especially of meat products. Chemical or biological anti-bacterials are only encouraging bacteria to develop better defenses faster. In effect, anti-bacterial soaps encourage the spread of disease.
 
Yes, hot soap and water are the first line of defense.

The vast majority of anti-bacterial soaps are no different from older formulations of the same soap. It's simply a marketing ploy and its valid because hot water and soap are effective in changing the osmotic pressures, temperature, and PH that most bacteria can tolerate, as well as just washing a lot of them away, not because of anti-biotics in the soap. Anti bacterial does not equal anti biotic and breed the resistance that frequent anti biotic use can breed.

Phil

 
Soft plastic is nice and uniformly soft. Wood for cutting boards is typically a hard variety and can also contain remnants of knots and abrasive minerals. Plastic is easier on the blades.

I like to use soft cafeteria trays as cutting "boards". They stack compactly, they are handy for transporting materials, they can be cleaned, and they don't drip. Check out the cheapest varieties at restaraunt supply stores (they are the softest).


[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 01-26-2001).]
 
For what it's worth, the "latest" information (2000) from the restaurant industry is that wooden cutting boards are now healthier because they can dry out and bacteria cannot live in a dry state, where as the plastic cutting boards retain moisture in the cracks which can house bacteria.

I am not advocating one or the other, only sharing information that I read in one of the "cooking" journals.

sal
 
All I know is that those glass textured cutting boards (hard) are murder on edges. I rolled my BMm 750 edge but good one day on a glass cutting board. Seems obvious, but dont use them!

------------------
A knife is by default a tool, it's only a weapon when a human chooses to make it so.
 
When I do dishes I like to use palmolive because it leaves my skin silky smooth and rejuvinates my fingernails. And I always wear an apron so I don't get grease on my blouse.

Oops... sorry. For a second I thought I was on MarthaStewartForums.com
tongue.gif
 
Sal, someone in the restaurant trade is an idiot! Many bacterial starter cultures for cheese production, fermented meat sausages, etc. are purchased in a "freeze dried" state! I've purchesed them many times. When moistened they start growing again. Drying is not an effective method for killing bacteria. Also, dry wood is not as dry as you might think.

Many of the concepts espoused above are correct, such as:

1) Hot soapy water is a better cleanser than antibacterial agents at room temperature. Your dishwasher with the caustic cleaning compound is a good sanitizer.

2) The white cutting boards (polyethylene, UHMW -- Ultra High Molecular Weight plastic, teflon, etc) are better on knife edges and are dishwasher safe.

3) The clear, hard plastic boards are terrible on knives, as are metal, ceramic, and stone.

4) Wood is not an approved food contact surface under USDA regulations, REASON: It cannot be sanitized properly! I guarantee that if you cut up a fresh chicken on a wood board and think the wood will sanitize itself, just wipe it dry with a cloth and go ahead and cut up your salad on it! You're going to regret it sometime in the night!

5) The consumer type antibacterial soaps now used are doing a good job of killing the weak bugs and selecting the strong ones to survive. Good old hot water and any soap is as good or better than these.

In my job as a food scientist I often come in contact with the restaurant industry. They know how to cook some tasty meals but they don't know technical concepts for beans. They know that cooking changes the texture of foods but rarely know the actual reasons why. Don't take food technical questions to a chef. It's kind of like asking a cop about the state or local law.

Bruce Woodbury
Senior Food Scientist (Meats)
 
Thanks for the info, people. This has been an eye-opener for me. I've always had a strong bias in favor of wood cutting boards because they're "natural," the grain is pleasing, and because I was SURE they were easier on cutting edges. Given the uniform opinion here that they're actually worse on edges coupled with the greater potential for bacterial colonization in the wood pores and cracks, I plan to break down this weekend and finally go plastic.
 
Mr. Woodbury; you certainly seem to have the qualifications to back up your statements.

However, I was surprised to see that you state that bacterial resistance to the consumer antibacterial products (Triclosan, etc.)occurs. I had thought that this was not the case, and that permanently impregnated objects (cutting boards) and clothing (socks) have an effective long term antibacterial action without development of resistance.

Would you be kind enough to providen a few references to support your position?

Thanks for properly informing me,

Walter Welch MD
 
Walt, I think Bruce's comments about consumer disinfectants were particularly directed towards the hand soaps and dish detergents that are common in kitchens and the way they are commonly used. Common kitchen practise is "if it looks and feels clean it's OK". Dish detergent is diluted into a sink full of warm water. It sits and cools. A housewife dabs a washcloth in the sink and wipes up the counter. There is a lot of slop on the cloth and not much detergent. The cloth spreads contamination around. There are a lot of bacteria that are only slightly exposed to the anti-bacterial. This is perfect for building resistance to the chemical.
 
I have glass cutting boards made by corning. They are pure hell on knife edges.

------------------
Although it does not mindfully keep guard in the small mountain fields, the scarecrow does not stand in vain
Bukkoku
 
What an amazing discussion!This topic comes up frequently in the healthcare industry of which I am a part of.Also, as a frustrated cook who has a friend employed as a U.S.D.A. inspector,I can offer that Phatch is right on the money.I would also add that,surface aside,the old method of sanitizing with bleach and water is still acceptable and is effective.Using different boards for different foods may seem going too far,however,it sure beats unpleasant hours hovering over a toilet
biggrin.gif


------------------
"Just me and my multi-tools."
 
Restaurants are not laboratories, cooks are not scientists...

...this being said, bleach works *great* and a commercial dishwasher with 150F wash compartment, 160F rinse compartment and 180F final rinse cycle renders the sanitation question moot.

IMHO the best cutting boards are not the hard plastic ones (as I sit one can hear the sound of the edge turning on these boards...ouch!), but the softer pale-banana- yellow ones. The ones in our kitchen are ~ 30"x40" (available in all sizes though) and soft enough that when just out of a high-temp dishwasher are pliable enough to bend in half. One does not hear that sickening "chink" as on a hard plastic board. I will not use my knives on a hard plastic (re: white) cutting board.

These boards are self-healing and in a home kitchen would last about forever.

Wood cutting boards are nice, but the thought of sending one repeatedly through the above mentioned high-temp dishwasher screams glue degredation and delamination.

-Michael

------------------
Chefget's Knife Page
Cook?
RecipePack Kitchen Management software
 
Jeff; your comments are well taken. I treat my wooden cutting board by taking a sponge (which is impregnated with an antibacterial) and putting some dish washing soap which has Triclosan (r) on it, and scrubbing the cutting board, then rinsing in hot water.

This method is considerably different from what you describe as common practice.

I would still like to be referred to some studies which have demonstrated the development of bacterial resistance to Triclosan (r) or similar chemicals, no matter what the methodology of using the antibacterial.

Thanks in advance. Walt

PS: hey Michael; are you back cooking again? That is a neat Talonite (r) chef's knife on your web page!!
smile.gif
W
 
Hi Bruce. I'm not ready to trade in my "plastic" cutting board (Corianne) on a wooden one. Just sharing info.

It is my understanding that Tuberculosis bacteria will comfortably survive 6 weeks in dried "spit" on a concrete sidewalk.

Also Spyderco knives are pretty hard on wooden cutting boards.

My preference is to use serrations on cutting boards where ever possible. Edge life of Spyderco's serrated K04 "utility" is about 10 times that of a plain edge on a hard plastic cutting board.

sal
 
A bit of disinfecting trivia. I was washing dishes at the local soup kitchen and they told me to use COLD water with bleach in the disinfecting solution rather than hot. It seems chlorine evaporation is a problem and the disinfectant loses its strenth pretty quick. So for long term soaking use cold water and bleach, for quick washing use hot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top