Cutting edge profile and sharpening

hank_rearden

hank_rearden

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Jun 7, 2002
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there must be several threads about those two subjects but i want to throw a whole basket of queries. better to just enumerate them. answer any question that catches you. thanks in advance.

1. do traditional katanas have secondary/sharpening bevels on them or not? a convexing perhaps?
2. how often do polishers polish and sharpen katanas? i know that the two are separate processes but since polishing entails stripping the blade bare of the handle and other accessories, i'm assuming the edge is also sharpened at the end.
3. regarding cavalry/dueling sabers, i know they're meant to be clashed edge-to-edge quite often (unlike katanas.) what kind of sharpening bevels are put into them?
4. re: two-handed broadswords (the more modern 'dos manos' kind after the 14th century.) were they kept dull just like the medieval broadswords? i'm assuming the primary bevel and the width of the blade already makes for an effective chopper even with a dulled edge.
5. what western sword blades had differential hardening/tempering, like the katanas?
***

hank
 
In my limited experience, I was under the impression that traditional katanas are zero ground and convex. I would also be interested in the other questions, particularly #2.
 
3. regarding cavalry/dueling sabers, i know they're meant to be clashed edge-to-edge quite often (unlike katanas.) what kind of sharpening bevels are put into them?

No, they were not meant to be clashed edge to edge quite often. Depending on the time line and country, swords were kept pretty sharp for use and the sharpening typically following the primary bevels. The lowest angle of a secondary bevel as possible was what was meant to keep them sharp after initial grinding. Many American military swords were not sharpened from the larger manufacturers and sharpening was per order of a given regiment/commander/unit. Some did, some did not.

There are several remarks from contemporaries during the American Civil War regarding the sharpening of swords ungentlemanly but on the flip side, others sharpening as keen as then could. Europe and the UK on the other hand were definitely sharpening during war time. again, as shallow a secondary as possible to then blend with the primary bevel. If you take the term saber ground, what it means is to sharpen to the flat of a primary cutting edge without imparting a secondary (or minimally when touching that up). It is known the French issued files and emery cloth to maintain sharp edges during the 19th century and there is no reason not to expect most of the world kept swords sharp during war. Some blunted in peace time (for drill, parade) Some sharpened new swords as they were gearing for war/campaign.

Water, foot and hand turned grind stones go back further than one might think. A handy smooth rock as handy as next to one's foot in most areas. There really isn't any magic or mystery.

One on one combat was not a Hollywood bash the edges for effect but rather parrying to deflect another's blade. While edge to edge contact was inevitable, binds and deflection were often with the handle half end of a blade where the blade is thicker and often not sharpened in that section.


4. re: two-handed broadswords (the more modern 'dos manos' kind after the 14th century.) were they kept dull just like the medieval broadswords? i'm assuming the primary bevel and the width of the blade already makes for an effective chopper even with a dulled edge.

Medieval swords were sharp, not dull. Again, the "factory" edge was often a zero edge ground from the primary bevel and touch ups may impose more or less of a secondary bevel to keep them sharp. Some sword geometries do have a broad secondary grind in their cross section but again, meant to be sharp. Think along the line of a chisel.

Blunt trauma weapons go back further than swords do. Swords have always meant to be sharp.

Cheers

GC
 
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Sharpening%20swords.jpg

boerswordsmod.jpg
 
i should have included in my question: what resulting inclusive angles do you get as a result? :D does the seal say "queen's own hussars?"
 
Keep in mind that cavalry charges ere most often not against other cavalry but rather to break up the infantry and artillery. With European and British cavalry, heavy and light often meant straight swords for the heavy and curved for the light. The light cavalry were more likely to be involved in sword play from horseback in a melee situation but still the object is the target to maim or kill and not the other's sword.

Towards the end of the the 19th century you see most trying to replace the two sided standard with a single type.

The French were big on their big straight swords and fielded curassiers, carabiniers and dragoons independent of the light cavalry with curved sabres. Back to the winged hussars of Poland a couple of centuries earlier, they would be carrying two or three sword types along with impact weapons.

America generally floundered with swordsmanship after the Mexican War period and even then less prepared to carry on warring with swords. By the American Civil War, most were dying in that war from artillery (including small arms) than any other cause aside from disease. However, there are a good number of cavalry charges beginning with swords drawn but rarely decisive in any major battle of that war. Still, America continued to field sword up to the second world war. See, the horse Marines of Peking with their Patton 1913.

Cheers

GC
 
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hank_rearden said:
i should have included in my question: what resulting inclusive angles do you get as a result? :D does the seal say "queen's own hussars?"
Click to expand...

The inclusive angles depend on the sword and sharpening but some are wafer thin at the foible, where most cutting is going on. So, you sometimes have a flat ovoid cross section that is only 4mm to 1mm past the fuller (say ten inches of foible) and that section then sharp enough to shave with. At the base of a "wristbreaker" the primary sabre grind inclusive angle is still pretty shallow.

Yes, Queens Own Hussars. Victorian India irrc. The other portable from the Boer war. Just two files I had handy.

Cheers

GC
 
Wow, horseclover strikes again. I found all that very informative as well. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
 
Adding to what horseclover says about late-Medieval two-handers above, it is my understanding that the blades on these were often sharpened at the forward end of the blade and left rebated at the hilt end to allow for reinforced blocks while grasping the ricasso. Any decent cut will use the forward third of the blade anyway and being able to choke up on the blade is really valuable in the press of mass combat.
 
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