cutting loose brush and standing green stemmed plants with a machete ?

[Kevin the grey]

For the moment I am using a cold steel Kukuuri machete . I mostly got it to learn how to throw a kukuuri without damaging my good H:I: Kukuuri . It throws great .

I either have some learning to do or a better edge to put on it . I,m swiping at brushy stems and single stemmed green plants about 3 feet high . It usually cuts after a couple of swipes but I sometimes have to hack too much or chop the stems so they contact the ground to cut against .

I feel I should be able to cut better with less effort . I also don,t like to have to contact the ground as it will dull the edge and possibly contact rocks which will do worse damage . Should I change the original edge angle or develop a better slashing technique ? What to do ? What to do ?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The origional edges on machete is usually far too thick, obtuse and dull. For cutting light vegetation you want a very thin, acute and extremely sharp edge. Using a machete to cut light brush you want a lot of speed and cut on an angle.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

By cutting on an angle do you mean to try and cut upwards a bit ? I,m pretty tall with a bad back . Stooping can be done but I prefer not to . I do have nice long arms which helps .

I am just going by feel when I say I think the angle is about 20 degrees . Its a loose guess as I just went by running a file along the edge to sharpen it and 20 degrees is when it felt the file wasn,t fighting the original angle .

Do you recomend file sharpening or should I be going for the smooth edge of a good stone sharpening ?

Oops I just read the extremely part of your sharpening advice . I,m going to go all out and medium , fine and ceramic stone sharpen it . I,ll let you know how it went in a couple of days .

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Going up is ideal due to the effect it has on the internal tension of the plants, especially on most woody brush, however it is usually very difficult for the user so you end up chopping down on an angle by default.

20 degrees per side is far too obtuse, for light vegetation I would start by cutting that in half. On woods you generally need to increase the bevel to about 15 in the very last of the bevel. How much so depends on the hardness of the wood and your skill, but as a starting point increasing the angle in the last 0.015-0.025" thick works well in most cases.

In regards to sharpness I wasn't specifically advocating a grit as much as the quality of the edge. If you need a high finish or a coarse grit depends on the vegetation and how you are cutting. For example on soft vegetation where you draw the blade along the material then you see an increase from a more coarse grit. However as the material is harder and you are basically chopping it down with no draw then you want a higher polish.

By sharpness I mainly meant to get the edge crisp and free of debris. Irregardless of the finish it should be able to push cut newsprint for example.

-Cliff

 

[shotgunner11]

I never fell for the CS Kukri machete, the thing just never cut very well for me no matter what the edge angle I put on it.

I tend to try to cut anything pinky finger sized or bigger with an extreme downward angle, just far enough overto bite into the wood.

As far as smaller stuff goes, I just hack at it like a freaking madman until it falls. I've never really had so much work to do that I needed to conserve energy, if I did, I would be in for a sore back and shoulder.

 

[Kevin the grey]

There is one thing for sure is that the blade while sharp had imperfections in the edge . It was used for throwing (and missing) so it had the dings that went along with it . It did get a filing and some licks on a stone before attempting the work . I will know better the next time to have as close to a pristine edge as possible . Sometimes when I think of rough work I think a reasonably sharp edge will do .

I have a machete from Cuba I recently got in trade . It has not been sharpened at all . Its no more than a flat blade shaped piece of metal with a handle on it . At least it will have the edge I want on it .

That way I can keep the kukuuri for throwing .

 

[pict]

Kevin,

First off, consider the need to slash and cut at light vegitation in the first place. I would rather walk a good bit extra on clear trail than hack through anything for a shortcut. Nothing is "short" when you're cutting!

For thick, tall grasses, sharp is really, really good. Don't worry too much about highly polished or refined edges, raggedy file sharp is fine. Your edge will get all beat up after a day or two anyway and you will be happy to get it raggedy file sharp again asap.

As a general rule if the plants have enough internal structure to not collapse as the blade is coming down, then swing downwards at whatever angle seems to be working for you. If the plants bend and collapse, and if they have to be cut, then swing horizontal or slightly upwards.

The best technique that I've found in such places is to part the vegitation if possible and don't bother chopping things if you don't have to. If you part the vegitation and still need to hack at it then push it to the side so its bunched up and then give it a chop. Sometimes cutting a green stick about 1.5 meters long helps in this process, hold it in your left and use it to shove the grass to the side (and clear spider webs!). When the grass is compressed against itself sometimes a short chop will hold it in place and it doesn't really matter if part of only took a kink, it's out of the way.

In thick grass a longer blade will save your back. Mac

 

[Kevin the grey]

Pict I think you said something there with a slightly longer blade . I will pay closer attention to my sharpening .

Unfortunately I am clearing a shooting lane for a bow blind so have little choice such as going around . That work is done and wasn,t horrendous . I just have enough work to do without doing it for nothing .

I also went through one place that was so thick I could lean against it and go to sleep without falling . Don,t you know it ? Like you said It was a place I could have gone around . Unfortunately I didn,t know it until I got through it . Scouting can be a bitc1-1 . L:O:L

 

[LHD]

I never fell for the CS Kukri machete, the thing just never cut very well for me no matter what the edge angle I put on it.

CS has 2 levels of quality. The machete kukri and the larger fixed blade kukri. I have one of the larger kukris and it takes and holds a keen edge very very well. Aside from carrying it, its pretty much the best chopper I have. I often carry the kershaw outcast in its place simply because the outcast is about half the weight.

 

[Kevin the grey]

A good point . Cold Steel has so many levels of quality . It does not always follow that if it is more expensive it is a better quality .

I got the Kukuuri machete as a thrower that was in the rough shape of a kukuuri .

Using it as a machete did not come into my thinking at the time . For 16 bucks it works admirably well as a thrower with a little modifying . It saves my 100 dollar plus kukuuri for tasks better suited to it .

Cold Steel does have some good stuff . I would say I was pleased with three of my five purchases .

 

[shecky]

The CS Kukri Machete seems better suited to heavier chopping. It seems the heavier blade and kukri shape make it so. I've had no problem putting a keen edge on mine, and find it can rival a small hatchet quite well. However, the stock edge needed a lot of work. As Cliff Stamp indicated, I found the edge to be not only rough, but too obtuse, and hollow ground to even make a good chopper out of the box. Certainly not refined enough to efficiently slash light greenery.

For lighter brush/green plants, a thinner, lighter blade seems to suit me better. My small Barteaux cane knife has a blade thickness about half that of the CS Kukri Machete and glides through softer green plants/grass with ease and much less fatigue to me.

 

[Kevin the grey]

The CS Kukri Machete seems better suited to heavier chopping. It seems the heavier blade and kukri shape make it so. I've had no problem putting a keen edge on mine, and find it can rival a small hatchet quite well. However, the stock edge needed a lot of work. As Cliff Stamp indicated, I found the edge to be not only rough, but too obtuse, and hollow ground to even make a good chopper out of the box. Certainly not refined enough to efficiently slash light greenery.

For lighter brush/green plants, a thinner, lighter blade seems to suit me better. My small Barteaux cane knife has a blade thickness about half that of the CS Kukri Machete and glides through softer green plants/grass with ease and much less fatigue to me.

Shecky I have strong arms though my wrists are not in the best of shape . Lighter thinner longer may be the way to go . It would seem to me that with lightweight vegetation the faster you swing the less likely it will get pushed out of the way .

While I did not look at my machete with a magnifier it did not appear to be hollow ground . More of a short obtuse simple bevel shape .

Cold steel has so many items that can change slightly without notice that we may be talking about slightly different articles .

Is there a chance to see your barteaux cane knife ? it sounds like a keeper .

 

[shecky]

While I did not look at my machete with a magnifier it did not appear to be hollow ground

It wasn't too noticable until I took a file to the thing to reprofile the edge.

Is there a chance to see your barteaux cane knife ? it sounds like a keeper

Mine looks exactly like the one pictured here. Mine is the small 10" model. This does well for my backpack hikes, as it's small and light. The steel is rather soft but thin and takes a very sharp edge. I find the handle comfortable. I've done some chopping in the yard with this, and found it does better than I would have thought, as small and light as it is. It came with a rough edge, but profiled easily, and touches up with several passes on a cheap ceramic stick. It's taken a few dents when hitting rocks and fence over time, have generally filed out well. The front corner edge seems to have taken most abuse and is more rounded than a sharp 90 degree angle these days.

One of these days, I'll try a 18" Economy Barteaux machete. Unlike the rarely found cane knife (I purchased it direct after calling the factory), they actually are available locally once in a while very cheaply. They seem to have the same lightweight blade thickness, but longer with a sort of tanto-ish point.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Thanks Shecky . I had seen pics of similar blades and did not know what they were called . With that wide a blade they must be fairly thin to weigh less than the C:S: kukuuri machete?

I realise you want ten inches to suit your backpacking needs . It must seem short at times when you would have to deal with thorned or otherwise unpleasant vegetation .

My B:O:B: is an alice pack so I may look at something shorter or at least lighter than mine .

Pardon my obtuseness . How did you determine the C:S: machete was hollow ground by filing it ?

 

[shecky]

With that wide a blade they must be fairly thin to weigh less than the C:S: kukuuri machete?

Yes, it is thin.

How did you determine the C:S: machete was hollow ground by filing it ?

Filing the edge, I found the edge and the top of the grind making contact while the middle is untouched. It's not too noticable until you try to widen the edge profile, as the original is fairly narrow and obtuse. Not to mention ground with something rougher than a cinderblock, full of nicks and rolled edges, and then painted black.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Yes, it is thin.



Filing the edge, I found the edge and the top of the grind making contact while the middle is untouched. It's not too noticable until you try to widen the edge profile, as the original is fairly narrow and obtuse. Not to mention ground with something rougher than a cinderblock, full of nicks and rolled edges, and then painted black.

Google cinder block sharpening and the cold steel website comes up ; L:O:L

You must have used a magnifier to be able to determine the file did not touch the whole edge ?

 

[Jeff Clark]

For light free-standing brush you want a very thin/light blade and length. You want virtually no blade, just edge, traveling very fast. When I say thin I mean 1/10 of an inch or less. When I say long, I mean 20 to 24 inch blade length. The idea is to rely only on the inertia of the plant to hold it in place while you zing through it. You want to apply as little forward motion to the plant as possible so you also want the blade honed to a very low angle. Most of the force will be wedging the branches in the upwards and downwards direction. You will probably be cutting somewhat downwards rather than level. This will allow you to get more speed in your swing. Use a bit of a wrist snap to speed up your swing. Although you have a long blade don't try and cut with more than a fraction of the length. Use the last 8 inches or so of blade. That part will be traveling the fastest.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Thanks Jeff . I think for serious brush clearing I would be doing what you and others have suggested . For the most part I think I will eventually leave the kukuuri machete at the throwing range .