Cutting/Usability characteristics of Damascus?

Professor

Professor

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Apr 6, 1999
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Greetings all.

I'm pondering purchase of a damascus fixed blade for occasional use, but primarily aesthetics.

How does this steel perform? It is not the stainless type damascus, but rather the old school stuff. I'd heard good and bad; from some I've heard that it's purely for aesthetics, while others have said that the layers make for an aggressive cutting steel.

How does it perform? Is it softer or harder than, say 1095 carbon steel? What are the long-term wear characteristics?

Thank you in advance for the replies and the education
smile.gif
. Damascus is uncharted territory for me.

Professor.
 
There is large variety of steels available for use in damascus, all with different cutting properties. Well made damascus from some combinations, properly heat treated will perform as well as most carbon steels. Damascus will have no more an 'aggresive' edge than the steels used in its makeup, it ussually has the same hardness throughout the different layers. I know many people who regularly use damascus blades, and other than cost can see know reoson it is inferior to most carbon steels. I usually use a mix of L-6 and O-1 in work knives which does perform better than straight 1095. Hope this helps.

------------------
Steve Filicietti
Custom Knives
AUSTRALIA
http://www.unitedbladeworx.com.au
 
Pattern welded steel is at best, no better than the harder of the two steels used in its making. It may not perform as well. Performance characteristics of low chromium pattern welded steel are similar to the 'carbon' steels. You buy it for its beauty. Not because it will perform better.

Some makers do claim performance advantages with particular types of pattern welding. Most do not. An interesting fact I have learned about many ABS Mastersmiths is that they routinely do differential heat treatment on plain carbon steel blades, but do an 'all-hard' heat-treatment on damascus.

Another point of concern is about stock removal blades made and heat-treated by someone other than the maker of that particular damascus pattern. One maker told me that No one buying his steel had ever asked about the best heat treatment for that particular mix. And he did not offer up the information without being asked. I was amazed by that comment.

Since heat treatment determines the physical properties of the blade, and thus performance, and you can not see the heat-treatment in most completed blades, you do not always know how well a particular damascus will perform. The same material ground and heat-treated by different makers may perform quite distinctly.

Damascus is all about Looks. Its performance may be somewhat uncertain. Know your maker and how he does things and Why if you want to have confidence in the performance of damascus steel.

Paracelsus

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 02-22-2001).]
 
From what I've heard, about the only damascus made now which would serve well apart from looks comes from Jerry Rados.
I may be wrong and look forward to further responses to this interesting question.
Erik
 
Jerry Rados makes some of the most amazing, tight, and finely finished damascus I have ever seen. I do not know that it will outperform any other makers damascus steel, however. That seems to be a rather extreme claim to me.

Paracelsus
 
There are many makers producing fine using damascus. I do feel that I would lean towards damascus only if aesthetics were my primary concern. If performance were also a concern, I'd make sure I bought from a maker who also had performance as a priority.

Professor, you will quickly get confused if you talk about "damascus" as if it's a particular type of steel. Damascus can be made in a number of ways, with a number of constituent steels. Some perform well, some look nice, some do both. But there's no way you can make a generalization about damascus like, "it performs well" or "it doesn't perform well". That's like saying "steel performs well in a knife" or "steel performs badly in a knife" -- we have to know which steel we're talking about, how it was heat treated, etc.

Typically, for aesthetic purposes, a steel that has some properties that make it look bright (typically through nickel or chromium content) is welded with a steel that looks dark. Examples:

The following steels will provide bright lines:

L-6 and 15N20 (the Swedish version of L-6) -- nickel content
O-1 -- chromium content
ASTM 203 E -- nickel content
Nickel (not a steel, obviously)

The following steels will provide dark lines:

1095
1084
5160
52100
W-2

You can read more in the Steel FAQ, at http://www.bladeforums.com/features/faqs.shtml


Anyway, what you want to do is make sure that the damascus you're looking at has good constituent steels, and talk to the maker about the performance he expects from his damascus. Most makers are very up-front about the performance of their damascus, in my experience.

Joe
 
Damasteel uses powdered metallurgy to produce several patterns, and the base steels are RWL34 (a powdered metal version of 154CM/ATS34) and PMC27. I wouldn't be afraid to hang my hat on it. It seems to me to be the best of both worlds for a using knife.
 
Very interesting reading indeed, Parac., thank you for the direction
smile.gif
.

The piece I am considering is damascus by Jim Furgeson, and stock-removed and crafted by Don Maxwell. The fixed blade is currently for sale at the For Sale forum. I've been eyeing it since it was first posted; looks like a nice fighter pattern.

Anyhow, I appreciate the education from all. I will continue to explore the subject, as well as my options vs. my applications.

Professor.
 
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